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[nerdpride]

"I love farming now"  That's what I thought too, and why I thought I should share.

I'm seriously in awe if you can get that one grower to make use of the whole farming plot you have (6x10?).  With four growers, locking them in the room with the plot and the seeds (so they didn't wander off in-between planting), I could barely get the whole thing planted--no, I usually couldn't get the whole thing planted before the helmets started popping up.

If some plants go rotten, I think it means that they didn't get harvested, and that gives a lot of skill.  When everyone was harvesting, I got numerous novice growers.  So I'm betting that a smaller farm will be more beneficial, unless the skill to be gained from fertilizing a bigger farm or planting the seeds is even larger than what you get from gathering.

I would try to see if the human traders have lye in the game where I originally tested (trade progressed quite far), but my trade minister got a nasty goblin wound and they won't talk to the other guy.

[utunnels]

Yeah, I just gave that grower no other jobs. He's lazy maybe, usually wandered arround. No, he can't make use of the whole farming plot(yeah, but enough for 8 dwarves' fortress). I think I will have about 200 plump helmet this winter and about 150 wine(don't know if I will have enough barrels).

So I assume I can fertilize my farming plot after first wave of immigration. I will have some more labors by then. But I think I won't need to worry about food anymore, maybe some pig tails this time?

Well, in fact, dwarves don't need too much food, maybe 200 plump helmet will be enough for 60 dwarves to survive winter. I had a fortress with more than 50 dwarves. I just designed some farming plots and actived several farmers, and I got plenty of food. Most farming plots were wasted though.

[nerdpride]

Pig tails seem a little useless to me, most of the time.  Trading finished goods, from the hands of a good clothes maker, to buy more material and food would make for a funny "knitting fortress", but it doesn't seem to pay off unless you focus in it.  Of course traders don't sell anything good either, and all the while they ask for awesome weapons and everything that takes a lot of focus to manufacture.  But the pig tails get you bags, which you'll need a lot of if you have farming and quarry bush stuff or glass production going on at the same time.

How much skill does he have?  I think my growers were talented or adept after the first year.  If you have only one with a larger field, I'm interested in knowing whether his skill increases faster in a surplus of work.

I'm going to try a knitting fortress now.  

[Marsume]

I used to be a staunch supporter of fertilizing, however it is completly useless compared to what wood can otherwise be used for. You will generally have 200 seeds for most everything in 3 or so years (give or take random chance) even with novice farmers. If you need more food per year, dig longer farm space. Assign more growers and make damn sure you've set all crops under kitchen to brew only. Remember cooking destroys seeds (no recovery), while brewing and eating do not. Besides you've probably read that brewing produces more drink from one plant than cooking produces food, so brew them into drink then cook the drink to food. Pigtails are wonderful and you can get most every thing you need just from them. You can wear them, drink them, eat them (in a round about way), and tie up criminals with them. Hell you can do just about everything but smoke them, and that's probably not far off.

[nerdpride]

quote:Originally posted by Marsume:
<STRONG>I used to be a staunch supporter of fertilizing, however it is completly useless compared to what wood can otherwise be used for. You will generally have 200 seeds for most everything in 3 or so years (give or take random chance) even with novice farmers. If you need more food per year, dig longer farm space. Assign more growers and make damn sure you've set all crops under kitchen to brew only. Remember cooking destroys seeds (no recovery), while brewing and eating do not. Besides you've probably read that brewing produces more drink from one plant than cooking produces food, so brew them into drink then cook the drink to food. Pigtails are wonderful and you can get most every thing you need just from them. You can wear them, drink them, eat them (in a round about way), and tie up criminals with them. Hell you can do just about everything but smoke them, and that's probably not far off.</STRONG>

They say that Toady doesn't like the current capabilities of cooking, so I'm just figuring stuff out for future possibilities.  I wouldn't be surprised if one ingredient in every cooked meal had to be either flour, meat, or fish.  I still don't get exactly what quarry bush leaves are (I think I saw "spice" somewhere once or twice) but maybe they'll be another main ingredient somehow.

A bunch of novice growers should work really well, but the player would have to have a bunch of extra dwarves.  If the player is recruiting a sizable army (and hopefully they will be more useful soon) then having as few growers as possible might be worthwhile for increased military potential.

[RPB]

quote:Originally posted by nerdpride:
<STRONG>Pig tails seem a little useless to me, most of the time.  Trading finished goods, from the hands of a good clothes maker, to buy more material and food would make for a funny "knitting fortress", but it doesn't seem to pay off unless you focus in it.  Of course traders don't sell anything good either, and all the while they ask for awesome weapons and everything that takes a lot of focus to manufacture.  But the pig tails get you bags, which you'll need a lot of if you have farming and quarry bush stuff or glass production going on at the same time.</STRONG>

To me, the picture of naked dwarves running around is horrifying enough to justify the effort of setting up a textile industry before the dwarves' clothes all rot off. And while the traders don't bring an awful lot of useful items, one of the few things that they're really good at is bringing lots and lots and lots of leather, to make even more clothing.

[utunnels]

quote:Originally posted by nerdpride:
<STRONG>How much skill does he have? </STRONG>

Professional.  
In fact, the status of him affects your skills. E.g., very agile vs very strong.
As a miner, a dwarf will gain exp much faster at high skill level, so do other jobs I believe.

[ August 18, 2007: Message edited by: utunnels ]

[schm0]

Potash can actually be mined, and the world's largest producer of this chemical substance takes advantage of this in their mines in Saskatchewan (PotashCorp).

So Toady, when are we going to stop burning our precious trees and start mining this crap out from the mountain? Potash is formed in regions where large oceans dried up, leaving salt and minerals to form over millions of years into potash.

[Mad Jackal]

1stly. thanks for this work and input. I have just begun thinking of trying fertilizing and how to start and set up for it.

2ndly my few cents while stuck at work.

My goal with using fertilizing (mind you I don't know that it will work but I wanted it to which was why I was going to try.) would be to increase the number of plants in each bundle that would be brewed so that instead of having barrells and barrells of 5 or 10 brew each, then I would have barrels of 25 brew each. This for several reasons.

1. To not require as many barrells for the same amount of alcohol.
2. To have each barrell last longer and thus require less hauling jobs to replace empty barrells.
3. Larger food stacks when cooking alcohol (if required.)

I have found that starting with 26 plumt helmuts and a brewer will easily turn out 125 alcohol in 5 barrells and 5 alcohol in the last barrel. And this while I'm waiting to dig to the river to set up my farms.
130 alcohol will easily support 8 dwarves for a year. And I get 25 per barrell because they come in stacks of 5 plump helmut.

It looks like even starting with skill = 8 growers doesn't get me any more than 3 plump helmut in a stack at once and that just isn't enough for me.