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[Harry Baldman]

I noticed a few moments ago that bards can raise dead. And later resurrect. Damn.

[TheBiggerFish]

Question is, though, whether I can learn to cast under fire, as was...

[Neonivek]

No, the vast majority of ranged things still need to hit, for example all the rays still need to actually hit.  So with the way they scale, by level 7 or 8 wizards will just never hit anything ever again...

Well no, armor tends not to go above 20 even on powerful beings where Iron Golems a CR: 16 only have 20ac. AC doesn't undergo the stupid insanity of 3.5 where it just grows out of control.

A Tarresque a CR 30 a being that can take on the avatar of gods STILL only has a AC of 25.

Add in that Wizards hit with Intelligence and not Dex and your looking at level 7 and 8 being a +8 without magic items. Meaning they hit typically heavily armored creatures on a 10+ and super armored creatures on a 12+

It is one of the reasons why even weaklings and peons actually mean a damn in 5e.

Multiclassing is kinda shit in 5e, I would think, unless you use it to dip into certain proficiencies, because level one gets you about a quarter of what the class is even about at best, with level 3 being the point where you actually get the core features and stuff. Also slows attribute gain, doesn't it? And you do need those +1s with how slowly everything increases for you.

It isn't quite as bad as you are thinking. Proficiency bonus is based on your total levels and not class levels. So there is that.

As well magic classes, except Warlocks kind of, mix together. So being a Cleric + Sorcerer Hybrid works.

I do honestly think, however, that attribute gain shouldn't be linked to class.

[Flying Dice]

Except that that CR3 sorcerer had an effective AC of 21 until he ran out of spell slots for Shield, and then 17 after. >.>

Unless the writer that made that pre-module adventure was just dumb and didn't know how to balance properly.

[TheBiggerFish]

Hey Neon?  You are GM.  ;P

[Neonivek]

Except that that CR3 sorcerer had an effective AC of 21 until he ran out of spell slots for Shield, and then 17 after. >.>

Unless the writer that made that pre-module adventure was just dumb and didn't know how to balance properly.

It is very similar to a CR 3 Sorcerer... He had armor, had a strength score, and even had multiple attacks, used Sorcerer spells and Charisma checks. There are reasons for this, but if I had to translate it to a class he is some sort of weird Sorcerer - Fighter hybrid.

It was built from the ground up mind you. Unlike the ones in the monster manual which mostly follow class levels (with features stripped out for complexity sake). Looking at his stats he seems outright like a boss.

I still think the Shield feels like it is a little too good... A reaction to get +5 AC for the entire series of attacks a single opponent does to you is good enough... But I dare not change it because as written it is a great spell for normal wizards, not so much for wizards who are wielding heavy armor. This is where 3.5 would have stepped in...

Still this is the theme of the type of enemies this guy falls under. They are good at staying in the fight and even when you guys are level 10 they can throw you through a loop. (as said low CR isn't code of useless anymore). Oddly enough I don't think they have the most scary gimmick of this adventure path, since really it usually amounts to "I wear armor".

---

Also yeah if people multiclass I am definitely going to apply that attribute bonuses appear at the exact same level they normally do regardless of what classes you take.

[Naryar]

Well, the normal hour's not good for me. So I'll be finding another game, I guess.

[TheBiggerFish]

Except that that CR3 sorcerer had an effective AC of 21 until he ran out of spell slots for Shield, and then 17 after. >.>

Unless the writer that made that pre-module adventure was just dumb and didn't know how to balance properly.

It is very similar to a CR 3 Sorcerer... He had armor, had a strength score, and even had multiple attacks, used Sorcerer spells and Charisma checks. There are reasons for this, but if I had to translate it to a class he is some sort of weird Sorcerer - Fighter hybrid.

It was built from the ground up mind you. Unlike the ones in the monster manual which mostly follow class levels (with features stripped out for complexity sake). Looking at his stats he seems outright like a boss.

I still think the Shield feels like it is a little too good... A reaction to get +5 AC for the entire series of attacks a single opponent does to you is good enough... But I dare not change it because as written it is a great spell for normal wizards, not so much for wizards who are wielding heavy armor. This is where 3.5 would have stepped in...

Still this is the theme of the type of enemies this guy falls under. They are good at staying in the fight and even when you guys are level 10 they can throw you through a loop. (as said low CR isn't code of useless anymore). Oddly enough I don't think they have the most scary gimmick of this adventure path, since really it usually amounts to "I wear armor".

---

Also yeah if people multiclass I am definitely going to apply that attribute bonuses appear at the exact same level they normally do regardless of what classes you take.

Maybe Shield should have a modifier based on armor proficiency most used on-character?

[Neonivek]

Actually that isn't a terrible idea.

Now Shield on this enemy makes sense he is kind of a boss, and a fragile one at that, so it fits.

[TheBiggerFish]

Anywho, what did I miss last session, anything?
Oh wait, yeah, it didn't happen.  Doh.
Also, help with my sheet would be...nice.  Just getting the relevant sections together.

[Flying Dice]

Ugh, I'm already remembering why I lost interest in the last 5e Wizard I played. Since we were essentially just doing a premodule, Neo, do you mind if I roll up a new 3rd level Sorcerer? Assuming we are going to continue, that is.

[Harry Baldman]

Heads up, probably not going to make it this Sunday. Have to get up really early the next day.

[kilakan]

at this point I might re-roll into a fighter or something.  Wizards a lot less fun than it used to be, and I'm not even talking about blasting.  All the utility spells are either gone or shit now really....

[Neonivek]

I think I am going to shut this game down.

Just so you know it isn't you guys, the issue is that this adventure path requires so much of my own work to even function that in the end I might as well have been making my own campaign and using it as a sort of guideline/ideabook.

I did have fun, but if I try 5e again in the future I am just going to start it from scratch.

[My Name is Immaterial]

I'm really sorry to hear that. I enjoyed my time with it.