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[fillipk]

I mostly rank Doctor as not so scummy because he hasn't been too active and the scum have, like I said I couldn't get a good read on him that's just a gut feeling

[Varee]

I mostly rank Doctor as not so scummy because he hasn't been too active and the scum have, like I said I couldn't get a good read on him that's just a gut feeling

that doesnt make much sense.... as i stated, me damp doctor and teneb have been pretty much equally inactive, why is he different?


@Tea: reads are like this post from fillipk

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Most Scummy[/size]Roo[/size]- Dead confirmed scum[/size]Dampe- A new person and he was voted by Persus13 and the persus dies, I think he's a werewolf, maybe with Tea since 4maskwolf was less active during the second nightTeneb- like tea said his first day 2 post makes him seem like a werewolf, or werewolf supporter here and his second post attacks Arcvasti for speculationVaree- Never did his analysis like he promised, I'm thinking mafia, not much else.Neutral Line FoU- Claims start of day 2, suspects lurkers, might be scum might notTea- has been scum hunting and explaining why he votes, never been pressured though, Asked me who I thought was mafia, maybe to get a read on what the town thinksNQT- Didn't post much but also kept up the push on moonlit because of classic scum tells, not much readTheDarkstar- Defended Roo but then investigated  by Arcvasti and confirmed not mafia, probably not a werewolfArcvasti- Claims cop and I believe it, has been scum hunting and post analyzing like the best of us.Moonlit Shadow- dead confirmed townieKilakan- Dead confirmed towniePersus13- Dead confirmed townieComrade Shamrock- Dead confirmed townieMost Townie
Doctor Mctaalik- lurking and unresponsive, no read but I'm thinking town because the scum have been active.

It is mostly just a list of name and what you feels about them.

[Tea]

That's a lot to ask of people without having given any reads yourself.

[DoctorMcTaalik]

Me,Teneb,Doctor and Dampe havent been doing much but I got to wonder, fillipk, why do you rank Doctor as not so scummy?

You know, I'm wondering the same thing myself. As you will read further on in this post, I'm highly suspicious of Fillipk. Perhaps one of the other lurkers is his scumbuddy, and he's trying to distance himself from them.

Well I know this might be a weird thing for me to ask but can we start making reads?

Alright, you asked for it. Text wall, activate!

The following are in ascending order of apparent scumminess, roughly. I chose not to include those players that I have yet to thoroughly examine.

Varee::
Maybe scum. Has yet to contribute much, though their claim that this is due to real life issues rather than active lurking holds some water; if you take a look at their profile, it's been over a week since they posted on any topics besides this one.

TheDarkStar:
Further analysis needed. Infrequent posting, but certainly not the worst offender.

Teneb:
As Arc pointed out, your recent inactivity in only this particular game as well as other factors were kind of suspicious. However, this isn't the only game you've dropped out of within the last couple of days, so RL problems are plausible. I really hope you weren't scum; in that case, we're probably screwed.

Dampe:
I think I made my suspicion pretty clear. After Fillipk, you strike me as the scummiest of the bunch.

Fillipk:
Scum. See spoiler.

Spoiler:  aforementioned spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've been wary of you for a while, but it wasn't until now that I had any concrete evidence besides gut-felt suspicion.

The bulk of my concern revolves around your seeming reluctance to scum hunt effectively, despite your being quite active on this thread. You've flipflopped on your vote so much as to devalue it, never sticking to any one target long enough or with enough concerted effort for your voting to achieve much. In addition to this, your justifications for these votes have ranged from poorly constructed to downright scumy. Not that the former reason isn't scummy in and of itself.

it's mostly because you voted against me

I don't actually understand if you said what side you were on so my vote stands

my gut is telling me Roo is scum.

You guys convinced me

the moonlit shadow is the other suspicious person and an easier one to lynch

I guess I was shooting in the dark

forgot to shift my vote

the fact that you aren't using lots of words says you don't want to give stuff away which is also suspicious.

People have made excellent points about why FoU or Arcavasti are scum, I feel we need to put someone under pressure.sooo

you never did claim if you were town

When Kilikan and Fallacy called you out on this, as I'm doing now, you responded with perhaps your weakest post yet.

You want scum hunting? Fine.

Dampe and RedMageCole you have not posted a thing I am accusing you both of scum defend yourselves

I mean, come on. When accused of lazy hunting, you jumped on the easiest targets possible, without applying any real pressure to them whatsoever.

Now, for concern #2. Fillipk's standard response to any kind of scrutiny:

I could be making you all think I'm a newb

this is my first bay12 game

I never played a good forum mafia game

it seems I'm not doing as great a job this game.

...has been to take refuge in his nubosity. This wouldn't be quite so concerning, if it wasn't for this later exchange:

Moonlit Shadow

Only if someone seems suspicious enough.

What counts as suspicious enough?

Uh. Highly suspicious, with at least one piece of logical evidence, not just interpreting the scumminess of their posts, which, as a noob, I can't do very well.

Again the noob factor, at least try and stop saying you are a noob we know that, its getting kind of suspicious.

So in summary of both posts I believe The Moonlit Shadow is scum because they never let the noob factor drop, its their main defense, and yes I used it but I didn't keep going back to it.  I think they are a werewolf hiding behind the noob defense which they keep bringing up when people move in on them.

Yes I realize reasoning is from before they figured out about two scum teams but that is also why I believe they are scum, and made a misstep when they thought there was only one scum team.

Fillipk: Besides hiding behind the noob defense[Which, besides the fact that Roo became a scummier target, is the main reason YOU're alive right now, I might add], what did The Moonlit Shadow do that you feel is scummy?

Yes I realize I'm a hypocrite for accusing TMS of scum because of the noob defense, however I never mentioned the fact outside of my defense and only used the point once, TMS keeps bringing it back up whenever someone even criticizes them.  Other then that most of it is reasoning that could still be true if they were scum.

I think Comrade has a good case against you but right now I'm thinking both you and Moonlit are werewolves Moonlit shadow assumed the werewolves didn't set something up but I'm assuming they have a quick topic and could have planned that out.  Maybe to draw suspicion away from the fact it smells like a plan.

My main problem with the noob defense is that Moonlit goes and analyzes people and posts really well but all his missteps and mistakes are contributed to being a noob, I admited to mistakes and didn't blame them all on noobness.  I think they are a noob scum hiding as a noob town.

After repeatedly using his own status as a newbie to justify questionable actions, Fillipk jumped on The Moonlit Shadow for precisely that offense. And then tried to claim that he'd only used the tactic once. Which calls into question his claim that:

nothing I have posted has been a lie

Lazy scumhunting, lazy justifications, blatant hypocrisy, and outright lies. All very scummy. Fillipk, what do you have to say for yourself?

[fillipk]

Not Quoting the whole thing because I don't want to make this post too big.

I would be a hypocrite to argue that my day 1 mistakes don't matter as you have pointed out.  Yes I scum hunted lazily day 1, but then I have improved that on both day 2 and day 3 and the second half of day 1 after a little trial and error.  As to me not sticking my vote to one person long enough to have it mean anything, I cite my final vote on Roo, my vote on Moonlit day 2, that claim is quite a lie unless you only look at day 1.  I changed my vote a couple times on day 2 but both times it was when new information made someone scummier, and then cleared them up.

As to my apparent standard response all of those quotes are from a time period of two days.  All other times I defended myself with logic and reason and didn't mention my newness to the game.

@the Moonlit shadow exchange, I'm reading back through the thread and I realized two things, how bad the day 1 exchange looks on me and a couple things Moonlit posted that make them look really town.

hmmm this defense isn't making me look town, but then again your accusation is mostly based on my day 1 performance and my day 2 scum hunting and I don't know how to defend myself from this.

Well thanks for posting more, all your scum hunting, even though its on me, gives me the impression you are town.

I'm going to leave my vote on Teneb since I think he is the most likely to be scum even though he is requesting a replacement.  His first post has a hint of him being a werewolf as he wants to focus finding mafia.  His second post defends Dampe and tries to shut down speculation, which helps but I believe speculation can be used to decide who to pressure.

If I'm breaking a curtesy rule by not changing my vote please let me know

[Arcvasti]

I still think TheDarkStar is town because they're Not Mafia and protected roo when everyone else was dogpiling on them. Saying nothing or going after them would both have served the ends of the Werewolves better then defending someone not on their scum team. Its possible they're a Godfather immune to investigation, but Occam's Razor indicates they're probably not scum.


re: Fillipk:

The question here is whether they're being a noob or they're being scum. Keep in mind that[According to Flabort when someone asked them to clarify earlier] scum have access to a quicktopic at all times which all the other scum could use to advise a newer player. Fillipk, put simply, has made quite a few newbish mistakes. I don't think they are scum at the moment, honestly. Not the best townie ever, but probably not scum.


Unvote all

Teneb's lurkiness seems to be from IRL stuff, I'll respect that. I expect their replacement to be more active and we'll judge from their actions.


Varee, Dampe, FallacyofUrist and DoctermcTaalik all lack enough information for any real readings


Tea is either town or devious scum. Even if they are scum, they're one of the few things keeping the thread moving and the town scumhunting.


My miraculous survival indicates we have a Docter[Either that or I'm mafia and we arranged to not NK anybody to make it look like a docter protected me. Occam's Razor, though]. Like scum, Docters would try not to draw too much attention to themselves because their ability is so valuable and they work best from the shadows[Unlike a cop/seer, who requires higher visibility. So low activity =/= scumtell necessarily. Unless one of the lurkers isn't busy IRL anymore and can so be goaded into action with pressure votes, I'd hold off going for any of them just yet.

[Arcvasti]

Addendum to my last post:

FallacyofUrist, while sort of suspicious[As I demonstrated yesterday], also has innocuous explanations for the inconsistencies I found. Without them defending themselves for more info, I am withholding judgement.

[fillipk]

I know I'm not the best town, all I can do is keep scum hunting and get better though, the main problem I see is that most of the scum leads are lurking, or at least my scum leads are.  I'm not shifting my vote.

[Varee]

PFP, I would like to comment that in this game, scum hunting is not a town tell as both scum team are also try to "hunt" each other too.

[Tea]

I think I'm done with forum mafia after this, at least on this site. I thought we might finally be getting somewhere with the Teneb train, but then he just fucking leaves.

Captain's grand contribution is a case on the easiest target on the thread that lacks thoughtfulness and temporal sense. Arcv has decided to stop pressuring people and to highlight to the mafia team that if the reason for only one kill was not a doctor, they can claim it and skate for a while. Varee just made that fucking post, as if the only three people who consistently post haven't said it themselves multiple times each, while continuing to contribute fuck all. Fillip is...trying, but I don't agree with his reasons for a lot of things. We need so many replacements.

I just feel helpless to play to win and I wish I didn't care (like most of you don't)

[Tea]

PFP, I would like to comment that in this game, scum hunting is not a town tell as both scum team are also try to "hunt" each other too.

Like my high school English teacher said: so what, who cares? Is your point that both scumhunting and not scumhunting make equal sense from town and scum perspectives? Does this mean we should random.org the lynch? If so, why is anyone discussing anything at all? Do you have any thoughts on ways scumhunting may be done differently by town and by scum? Is there someone in particular that you are trying to imply is scum by this and that we should be paranoid of them? Have you not read all the times other people have mentioned this and even contributed thoughtful specificity? Why are so many of your contributions aimed at nitpicking other people's contributions (implying townreads on ppl for scumhunting are bad, self voting to indicate that ppl should not just focus on a couple of people when hunting) while contributing fuck all yourself? (Including suggesting "we" post huge read walls when you don't actually seem to be including yourself as responsible for doing that, so far?)

PFP!!!

[Arcvasti]

I just feel helpless to play to win and I wish I didn't care (like most of you don't)

Yep. Literally half of the people in the game haven't posted in in-game days or have posted only intermittently. I'm shooting blind here and I hate it. RVS all fucking over again except goading people into defending themselves with pressure votes doesn't work because most of them are busy IRL and can't play anyways so lynching them would garner about the same information as lynching a goddamn ROCK would.


Fuck it, I'm voting someone mostly random until I get some ANSWERS. And if not then I have 1/3ish odds of getting scum through sheer chance, which is better then what's going on right now. Dampe is the most suspicious of the lurkers by several fractions of a hairs breadth, so why not them. I'm sure as hell not voting any of the few people aboard this sinking thread who've actually contributed consistently, its been bad enough since we lost most of the major old scumhunters to murder or inactivity.

[notquitethere]

Ok, pretty much all moved in now so can give this attention it deserves.

Tea

I think I'm done with forum mafia after this, at least on this site. I thought we might finally be getting somewhere with the Teneb train, but then he just fucking leaves.

Don't despair! For whatever reason activity in this game has been much lower than forum standards. The existence of two scum teams acts as a deflationary pressure on the amount of posting because somewhere between three and five people don't want to make waves and there's a fair few busy or inexperienced players besides.

Even if players post infrequently, you can always pin them to their voting habits. Fact is, whether he replaces out or not, Teneb still pushed a pro-scum case on a towny-looking player, Arcavasti. And as a small meta-point, I've seen Teneb (AKA Deathsword) replace out of games several times before, often as scum. He's still a good pick for today.

[notquitethere]

Can we get a vote count?

[Varee]

@Tea: I understand your concern, it is annoying that stuff is not going as expected. I didnt say townread for scumhunting is bad but rather a read that say""Well he scumhunt so town" dont really say much.
While I asked for read while not giving one is not a good practice but I dont have much to offer currently, it not like I am forcing you to give a read list. I am trying to compile my list, in the current form it not much to go on anyway.