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Where we landed, since it will have snow coverage and be hidden.

5 (19.2%)

The North west of the United states, around Oregon or Montana. Lots of unsettled land.

6 (23.1%)

Europe. Beautiful country sides and plenty of hiding places.

7 (26.9%)

Other. PM suggestion to Sanure.

1 (3.8%)

Sanure has to choose this option during the vote.

7 (26.9%)

Total Members Voted: 24

[Sanure]

I have yet to see any reason to nerf the invisibility buff. I can nerf it now, but that means I will nerf several things I see as potential problems. So until I see proof that the invisibility buff (Actual IC combat logs as proof.) is OP and unfair, I'm allowing it.

[Akroma]

the unfairness of it is not something taken from the logs, but rather, by looking at the system




precise effect: +2/4/6 to hit, for 1,2,3 points


invisible effect: guaranteed hit, for 1 point, AND unable to be attacked while invisible.




since right now, at very low levels, stat differences are small, I'd say you need about a +8 for a guaranteed hit, meaning invisible saves you 3 points, which can be put into damage to deal 3d4 more damage.


however if you take this lategame, if you want a guaranteed hit, you will need way more points into precise, while invisible stays a guaranteed hit no matter what. So you can spend WAY more points into damage, or basicaly ANY effect, making your attack simply, MUCH stronger than anything comparable.


and before you start argueing "but there are ways to counter invisibility", of course there are, but there are also ways to counter precise, so that point is moot. Thing is even high levels of the precise effect can be countered just by having unlucky dice, while invisible doesnt even involve a diceroll. If you want to counter invisible, you will have to actively work around it. And that either means bosses will have some sort of bullshit, madeup true sight artifact or some other nonsense, which is lame, or actively have to spend an action doing whatever it is they do to counter invisibility. That's an action they are not using to attack, to defend themselves, to debuff someone or anything, it's only an action to get rid of invisibility - which is a huge advantage for the one who went invisible, because he literaly stole the enemies action.




now, I am not saying that this shouldn't be a thing, going invisible is neat and all, and it really is not gamebreaking or overpowered. It's just not fair cost-wise. It's simply an effect that is way stronger than other effects, but costs the same as those effects. Anyone who thinks that a +2 to hit has the same value as a GUARANTEED hit AND avoiding a large variety of attacks at the same time should be equal in point-cost should at the same time be fine if you deal 1d4 damage for every point taken in damage, while someone else deals 5d4 damage for each point taken in damage.

[kj1225]

Akroma is right, invisibility really isn't something a first level character should be able to use without a huge number of drawbacks.

[Adragis]

Going to agree with Akroma tbf.
One does not simply have that without all kinds of nast sideffects.

[Sanure]

Assuming one thing and seeing proof of something is a very different thing. I'll state it again, I'm allowing it until I see IN CHARACTER Proof of it being a problem. I'll nerf it if it becomes a problem. I trust my players to not powergame or be unfair. That's my decision.

[Akroma]

it's not an assumption, its maths and numbers, the closest we can get to ever "proving" game balance.


as for in-character proves, there simply are none, because characters don't see any numbers involved, and thus can not comment on it. That's not just breaking the 4th wall, it would be the characters themselves breaking the 4th wall to meta

[kj1225]

Sanure, just nerf it, pretty much all of the active player base agrees that it needs nerfing.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Yeah, I honestly don't see how you could get In Character proof of it being a problem due to the reasons that Akroma stated. Since enough people think that it's imbalanced and nobody has spoken about how fair it is, I'd strongly think about nerfing it. _{Also asking the players not to powergame or be unfair is probably demanding a bit too much from them. Also I should really make a character and get back into the game now that everything seems to have its shit together. Key word here being should. Making characters has never been my strong point.}

[kj1225]

Yeah, I honestly don't see how you could get In Character proof of it being a problem due to the reasons that Akroma stated. Since enough people think that it's imbalanced and nobody has spoken about how fair it is, I'd strongly think about nerfing it. _{Also asking the players not to powergame or be unfair is probably demanding a bit too much from them. Also I should really make a character and get back into the game now that everything seems to have its shit together. Key word here being should. Making characters has never been my strong point.}

_{Make an Oni, those are always great.}

[USEC_OFFICER]

_{I agree. Oni are pretty damn great. But no. I'm not interested in making another.}

[kj1225]

_{You could always google monsters. That's the best way to get inspiration.}

[Sanure]

And here I thought I made my decision clear. I am allowing it for now. After PN's Boss battle is over I will then judge if it needs to be nerfed. No buts and no complaints.

@USEC, I think you should bring back Washu Wiwian :3

Also, I'm not asking them to not powergame or be unfair. I'm putting my trust in them to show restraint.

[kj1225]

You know, Nick Fury had a few choice words about people making 'final' decisions and in this case, I agree with him.

[Sanure]

Until I see a Nick Fury character, I am not laughing at that

Also, It's not my 'final' decision. It's the decision I am making for now, until the end of PN's boss fight.

[Akroma]

I am sure if Kansa was here, he would agree, so thats a 5v2 vote, perhaps even 6v1 if PN can be swayed from this basicaly nerfing his character. In that kind of event, just putting a GM foot down is a display of poor judgement.


Either way, USEC, if you have any basic idea on what to do, lets brainstorm. For now, lets hear your opinion on:


magnetism, spiders, ghosts, energy aborption, sound, bones, blood, mimics, comical enlargement?