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[Silcugar]

Hetrusca of Haruspex stands, a lean man with a darker complexion than most. "As it is the duty of the Judge to adjudicate, it is left to the Towers to temper the law! I am compelled to speak first on the matter of the temple, to temper our Judge's swift condemnation!" The Tower gestures widely to the council, affecting a pleading tone. "We are a people of tradition, yes, and our laws, like nervous molten iron, have been forever impressed by the molds of our history. But, like fine Ragonan steel, it is the soldier who applies the weapon, not the smith! There is clear sentiment against the Cult of the Black Sun within the inner circles of the city, this much is clear. So what shall we do? Outlaw them? Drive this disease from the heart so that it may fester in the limbs?! I say this cannot be!

"Rather, we open the doors. The longer they are left to their own devices, the deeper the baleful resentment seeps into the plebeian heart. Today, hardy and devout men, only looking to defend what little sanctuary they're afforded, take it upon themselves to bring peace to the blindspots of the rich and fat. But what next? Maybe, in a blind-- but justified fury, the very plebeians we are meant to represent riot once more!

"It might well be the case for some of you that the simplest solution is to throw gold at the issue and forget. Whatever the plebians destroy, we rebuild, to be destroyed again, and again rebuild... They don't want our wealth! They want sympathy! And while some of my fellow Towers see fit to sit atop marble steps, stroking their beards with soft hands, dictating what beliefs shall be allowed into our hollowed gardens, and under what pretense, I see things more practically. My father said, "When your grapes are foul, you plant olives." So why not see this cult as the remedy it is?

"The temple must be allowed, regarded with just as much scrutiny as any other private construction within the city. We calm the plebs within the city and without, reducing crime and dissent, and taking one more step to show the body-- the people of our city that we understand their plight." The Tower Haruspex pauses, letting his words settle.

"Now, as for the foreign war... I am inclined to stay out of such a conflict and focus inward, where true care is needed. However, Tower Elbegast makes a solid point. If we don't make some action now, one or both of the states may think us weak or indecisive. As a patriot, and a man who has faith in our noble Centuria, I am now inclined to agree with our Chief."

[Spiderking50]

Yes, let's welcome this disease into our heart he says. Bring this foreign power into our midst he says. Say to our people that these foreigners are equal to you, your father, your ancestors, and our gods. Are these strange hands, with foreign and dark masters, the same as our men and women who have called this place their home for centuries? If so, you may as build the temples upon our graveyards and our traditional churches, because it won't be long before they are there anyways. If he believes we stand upon marble pedestals, let him be the one to place a dark altar on his hearth, not the hearth of our children. If these lands are covered in darkness, it will be because we invited it in, not because it tore down these wall of light and tradition.


As far as our intervention in war. I say if we aren't here to profit, then that's fine. If we are to make a claim, I say we do so with the lesser. They shall appreciate it more and with out steel in the hands of their men, well, defeat will be a concept reserved for the enemy.

[Playergamer]

"The war between Irlax and Lorenze is not a great enough concern for us to go to war, fellow towers. If we are to support Lorenze, I must stress that our support shall not include sending the Centuria to fight in this foreign war. Irlax is one of the large importers of Ragonan goods, and I feel sending the Centuria against them would alienate them too much."

"However, if you wish, we could still support Lorenze. We could, although I personally do not agree with it, send the personal forces of our more powerful towers to aid them. If they were willing, of course. If peace and neutrality is still an option, I urge you to pursue it, but this is the second best option."

"As for the Black Sun, they are an aggressive, expansionist cult, and it is my opinion that, if we let them publicly build a temple in this city, we would lose much of our grasp on the plebs. Let us remember that, although religious, the Black Sun are also a great military and political power, and giving them a foothold within our walls could quickly lead to the destruction of everything we hold dear."

[Iituem]

"Regarding the Black Sun, I am eager to hear more arguments as to whether or not they should be allowed within our walls. What concerns me more is the implication my honoured Tower made that the Centuria do not patrol all districts evenly. The law should apply to every part of the city, should it not?"

The Chief of the Centuria looks both embarrassed and outraged.

CHIEF:  "Our forces are stretched, it is true, but only because the man who holds the city's purse strings keeps them too tight!  Joining this war I feel is the only way to get the full funding our men need to defend the whole of the city - if our garrison were paid appropriately, we could police the city accordingly."

MASTER: "The most important parts of the city are policed appropriately.  The money you demand for your thief-takers is being spent on public works, such as the aqueduct you yourself voted in!  We simply cannot spare the funds to police the periphery."

CHIEF:  "Except in war."

MASTER:  "Except in war, yes.  Then you would have precedent over spending."

That aside...im curious How would the situation look if we would support Irlax instead of Lorenze...purely hypothetical i mean? What would we stand to gain in territory and would it be a shorter campaign?

CHIEF: "Hypothetically?  The Lorenzene would defend their own fiercely, proudly... and ineffectually.  If we were to combine our forces, I doubt Lorenze would be able to hold.  We could claim anywhere from a third to half of its land in a peace settlement, although that would largely be a matter of negotiation with Irlax."

[This phase is being extended for a few extra hours for any debate on the new information.]

[Ghazkull]

Well fellow towers then the choice is obvious! As it was said before we need allies, but to aid Lorenze would send us in a drawn out Campaign from which we gain what? An ally at the cost of thousands Ragonian Lives? I move that we instead ally with Irlax, sell them our weapons and move against Lorenze. The Territorial Gains will bring fresh money into the Treasury and our newly raised Soldiers will recieve important experience. House Stonetree will even pledge two of its own Maniples to the War Effort!



I move that we instead ally with Irlax, sell them our weapons and move against Lorenze.
House Stonetree will even pledge two of its own Maniples to the War Effort (but only in the case that Lorenze is the target)

[notquitethere]

Tower Elbegast takes a stand once more. "Never have I seen my fellow Towers stand as monuments to such folly. To side with the Irlax in this matter would be to paint ourselves as opportunistic thugs! They have broken natural law in invading their neighbour for territory. Let us not join with them in plunder. Let us instead create the environment in which city states will know it is not acceptable to invade one another on such flimsy pretexts. It is the long term security of our city that is at stake here. We must take a stand on the side of righteousness.

"As for the matter of the temple: I see a lot of baseless worrying. Our gods are strong and true and cannot be weakened by accepting temples into the city. I would let them have a temple on the condition that they leave public security matters to the Centuria."

[Playergamer]

"Stonetree, surely you jest. Not only would we have almost no reason to join the war on the Irlaxi side, we would send the message that the only support you can gain from Ragona is a dagger in the back. None of the other city-states would ever trust us again. We would be joining against the Lorenze, not for a concrete reason, but rather because we are opportunistic. That is not a good reputation to foster, Stonetree."

[Ghazkull]

What Dagger in the back my dear tower? We have had solely Neutral Relationships with both Irlax and Lorenze up to this point. Nowhere have we ever had any Duty to support or not support either of them.
The Fact is that Lorenze will fall without our help and Irlax will claim the spoils...perhaps it will take years till they manage to do that but nonetheless it will fall. The Question is whether we should hasten that fall and profit from it...or stand by and see a belligerent neighbour grow stronger.

As i see it helping Irlax gives us a strong ally rather than a weak one in the case of Lorenze, in the short and long term supporting Irlax in its claim seems prudent and pragmatic.

[Playergamer]

"You would not feel betrayed if you went to a friendly nation, requesting help, and their response was to invade you? How don't you see that would be seen by the other city-states as a betrayal? If Irlax had requested our help, your plan would be less foolish, but to invade Lorenze when they request our help is cold and opportunistic, and we cannot afford to cultivate that kind of reputation."

[Hiddenleafguy]

Avery stands to debate, today he is wearing black clothes that manages to be courtly whilst still allowing freedom of movement. " perhaps we could assist in a way that does not cause us to go to war with Larlax. I propose that we pass a mercenary act, allowing any commander with permission from a tower to hire themselves out to any country, and then give them secret orders to hire themselves out to the Loreneze.  As for the black sun, I say we let them have their temples in the city walls."

[Iituem]

SENEX: "Very well, a proposal shall be added for voting to suggest taking the side of Irlax.  If you feel there should be no joining of the war, simply vote Nay to both proposals."

An aide moves up to the Senex Princeps. He listens for a moment, then stands up and strikes the floor again, twice this time.

SENEX: "All that had to be said has been said. The sun is past its midpoint. The voting begins now."

Young boys rush into the chamber, bringing quills and wax tablets for all Towers present.

The Afternoon Phase has begun.  You may vote on each of the topics, Aye or Nay.

1. That Ragona shall intercede on the side of Lorenze.

2. That Ragona shall intercede on the side of Irlax.

3. That the Cult of the Black Sun be permitted to construct a temple within the city walls.

[Playergamer]

Nay, nay, and nay.

[Hiddenleafguy]

Aye,nay, and aye

[Spiderking50]

Aye, nay, nay. (There was talk of towers being able to send help in the war effort, is that not an option?)

[Ghazkull]

Nay. AYE. Nay. ((well you can do that on your own in the Nightphase Spiderking))