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[Hawk132]

Besides we need more bats anyhow.

-1.

Lets field skeletons again

+1.

[pisskop]

Yea, as fun as it would be to fight off the militia that comes looking for the gobbos after the raid with our current setup, skeles are the de facto backbone of a necromaner's army.

[pisskop]

Id be willing to purchause a hallway, and a few bats, but we're taking the idea too far too fast when we prioritize bats before the largest fight we've seen to date.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Im concerned that some people mayu be misunderstanding what minmaxing is :/

Merely buying critters isnt minmaxing.  Trying to override established gamemechanics to get free bats might qualify, however.

If you want to discuss terms...

The art, much beloved of munchkins, of optimizing a character's abilities during creation by maximizing the most important skills and attributes, while minimizing the cost. This is done by strategic decrease of stats believed to be less important in game (called "Dump Stats"), exploiting hideously overpowered but legal combinations of the Game System, obtaining the best toys and magic weapons accessible to a character, or by stacking flaws and handicaps until your character's Backstory looks like a Joss Whedon character's resume.

Seen from a purely mathematical and gamist perspective, it's an elegant process of minimum expenditure for maximum result.
Seen from a more narrativist perspective, the process may end up creating a character with absolutely no unifying reason to have the abilities that it does.

Even if it come from RPG and characters it is same for nation games, wargames or anything else that has generation and\or level-uping some entity using numbers.

Minmaxing is choosing the best approach to "win the game" because it is an optimal strategy numberwise without caring about interesting story or logical behavior.

Rooms\Floors\Minions\Equipment are attributes of our "dungeon character" I believe that spending half points on minions and half points on expanding the dungeon is logical way to proceed that fits the setting, while going full minions is minmaxing because this choice is dictated by optimal strategy alone.

[~Neri]

I would say that no, expanding does not fit our character. Our character seems to prefer being careful. Careful means having an army, and Then going to expand.

[pisskop]

Having a well-designed or heavy defense is not 'minmaxing'.  Imagine if every tough enemy could be ousted by being accused of 'minmaxing'.  And nobodys arguing that we never needs rooms ever either.

We have the largest battle of the game to date coming up, we let critters get away last time, and so much can go wrong with the goblins we dont have time to devote to rooms.

-What if the goblins turn on us?  @40 gobbos, even if half come here in a raid we'll be hard pressed as is.
-what if some militia from town come to find the raided peasants?
-What if mercs come?
-What if priests or mages exist in this game that can turn the undead?  (bats would be the obvious immediate solution then )


Besides, we just expanded, and have all this unused space.

[Ozarck]

You know, we've only actually fielded skeletons twice now. And one of those times, we also bought bats. I'm not against adding bats, in proportion to their current numbers in our army, which is why my pot had a mix. I'd be fine adding rooms if we had the leeway to make them useful. about the only useful room I can think of at the moment though is the small hallway. We could make two of those and station our troops at the end of each so that enemies can only filet in one at a a time, and arrive facing a horde.

We're the dungeon of an incomplete Lich King. We crave power and care little for our minions (or anyone else') wellbeing or happiness.

[adwarf]

If someone could do me a favor, and tally votes and put the plans in one vote that'd be much appreciated. While that would be helpful its not required, and I'll be starting work on an update later today regardless.

[adwarf]

So after searching through the past six pages, and adding up votes the most supported idea was the bat breeding room.

Day 14, Part 3

With the goblin forces gone you turn you attention to expanding the catacombs, and begin to carve out hallways and a new room. The hallways themselves are small enough, and are made to resemble the entrance hall's architecture while the room they open up into is a large rocky cavern designed to act as a nest for several new giant bats. The six new monsters quickly make themselves at home in the cavern-like room as they hang from small outcroppings or the ceiling itself.

-----

It is not until night fall that the goblins return to your graveyard, and this time they arrive in far lesser numbers. In fact as they prod about three weak looking humans into the graveyard only eight of the goblins remain aside from the blue-skinned one. Snarling the blue-skinned goblin directs the remaining ones to lay the humans on the graves, and kill them before turning to look deeper into the graveyard.

Blue-skinned Goblin: "The humanses prepare for war, my tribesmen were slaughtered against newly built walls. These wallses only stand in the direction of this burial ground, and so I, the great Rgalr, thought why would humanses prepare so well for goblinses raid? The answer is you, whatever you are hiding in this burial ground, and you let me send good goblinses to their deathses. So, where is this reward you spoke of? Or was that trick to get me to send my tribesmen to their deathses?"

Spoiler: Available Powers, and Skills (click to show/hide)

Dungeon Heart Powers:
Surpass Death - With your Heart's growth in power it has begun to regain some of its former powers, and now the Lich King's vessel is capable of planting a seed of its glory in one of your minions. There can only be one seed of power active at any one time, and it grants its host the ability to shrug off death with ease. A minion who would've died is instead healed completely and continues to fight long after its death was supposed to occur.
Cost: 10 Experience

Dungeon Powers:
Item Analysis - One of the lower tiers of a Dungeon's Innate Powers this allows you identify items, and gain some information on their stats though items of superior craftsmanship will surpass your ability to identify.
Cost: 5 Experience

Dungeon Skills:

Spoiler: Dungeon Stats (click to show/hide)

Dungeon Rank: 1
Dungeon Type: Catacombs

Experience: 15
Dungeon Points: 30 DP

Dungeon Heart:
Incomplete Lich King's Vessel - Safe

Dungeon Powers:
Defy Death - When one of your minions fall you may use the power of the goblet to bring it back from death though currently this power can only be used once per day.

Dungeon Skills:
Dungeon Point Generation II - Using your accumulated power you increase your connection to the world's mana flow increasing your daily Dungeon Point Generation by 10.
Undead Minions I - Some of the innate knowledge of Dungeons has been imparted onto you revealing the method to create undead minions of a new, and more powerful tier to you.
Dungeon Creation - You have obtained the knowledge of how to further develop your domain, expanding it down into the depths of the earth, or up into the reaches of of the sky as you please. Floor by floor, and room by room you can give birth to a vast labyrinth.

Spoiler: Guardians, and Dungeon Layout (click to show/hide)

Graveyard Area
Outside (Leads into the Mausoleum)
2x Giant Bats
3x Zombies
Captain Bones [Iron Sword, Kite Shield, Leather Armor, Inspiring]
Skeleton [Short Spear, Rotting Buckler, Leather Armor]
Skeleton [Short Spear, Rotting Buckler, Leather Armor]
Skeleton [Short Spear, Rotting Buckler, Leather Armor]
2x Skeleton [Short Spear, Rotting Buckler, Leather Armor]
4x Skeleton [Bone Shortbow]

Mausoleum (Leads Outside or Down to B1 Entrance Hall)
No one.

Floor B1
Entrance Hall (Leads up to Mausoleum, and to Hallway 1)
No one.

Hallway 1 (Leads to Entrance Hall, and the Batroom)
No one.

The Batroom (Leads to Hallway 1, and Hallway 2)
6 Giant Bats

Hallway 2
No one.

Heart Chamber (Leads to Hallway 2)
No one.

Spoiler: Dungeon Management (click to show/hide)

Create another Floor - Using your accumulated power you add another floor to your Domain expanding it down to make it harder to reach your precious Heart.
Cost: 75 DP


Add a Room - With some work you expand one of your floors by adding a room, and connecting it to other chambers.
Cost: 15 DP [Small Room], 30 DP [Medium Room], 45 DP [Large Room]

Add a Hallway - You use your power to carve out a hallway between rooms instead of creating directly adjacent connections.
Cost: 5 DP [Small Hallway], 10 DP [Medium Hallway], 15 DP [Large Hallway]

Spoiler: Minions, Items, Traps, and More (click to show/hide)

Minions:
Skeleton - The weakest of minions available to you, they are the remnants of human corpses raised to protect you from those who would seek to steal away your Heart. Though they are weak they hold great potential for advancement.
Cost: 5 DP

Captain Bones - A skeleton whose purpose is to lead, and coordinate other skeletons in battle. They're about as competent in battle as any other skeleton, but their presence and the deathly aura they give off makes other nearby skeletons more efficient at killing their foes.
Cost: 15 DP

Zombie - Much more robust than skeletons your zombies, but somewhat slower and less agile these zombies are useful for taking a few hits while your stronger minions take care of any real threats. Can only equip armor.
Cost: 5 DP

Giant Bat - A small, and unassuming bat. Not the most powerful of creatures that might one day serve you, but given the chance they can prove just as lethal as any old bag of bones you bring forth from the ground.
Cost: 10 DP

Items:
Rusty Sword - Its an old, rusty sword. What did you expect?
Cost: 5 DP

Bone Shortbow - A weapon carved from the bones of some animal with its bowstring made from its sinew. A powerful if somewhat unimpressive looking weapon.
Cost: 10 DP

Rotting Buckler - This shield is about as old as the corpses you summon to guard yourself, while not the most reliable thing it is better than nothing.
Cost: 5 DP

Traps:
None?

[~Neri]

We promised them a reward. Or specifically the Blue One.

Unlock Surpass Death and grant it to the Blue Goblin.

Speak to him.

"Death does not hold domain within these hallowed graves. The fallen may rise once more. Fully Living. Or Partly Dead. Bring the bodies of your fellows, one a day may be brought to life once more, Aware of themselves. And in control of their own fate."

((I would assume Defy Death could work on any corpse. Not just a minion.))

[adwarf]

((I would assume Defy Death could work on any corpse. Not just a minion.))

Defy Death does work on anyone. Surpass Death also works on anyone so long as they remain inside your domain.

[~Neri]

((Good. So we can raise his great grandpappy if he wants us to.))

[Hawk132]

We promised them a reward. Or specifically the Blue One.

Unlock Surpass Death and grant it to the Blue Goblin.

Speak to him.

"Death does not hold domain within these hallowed graves. The fallen may rise once more. Fully Living. Or Partly Dead. Bring the bodies of your fellows, one a day may be brought to life once more, Aware of themselves. And in control of their own fate."

((I would assume Defy Death could work on any corpse. Not just a minion.))

I don't really like using Surpass Death on a mere goblin, but I'll +1 this anyway. Let's unlock Item Analysis too, since we have the XP for it.

[~Neri]

The gobbo seems like a mage. Also its a Strong Willed Character. We wouldn't be able to speak to it if it weren't.

[FallacyofUrist]

We promised them a reward. Or specifically the Blue One.

Unlock Surpass Death and grant it to the Blue Goblin.

Speak to him.

"Death does not hold domain within these hallowed graves. The fallen may rise once more. Fully Living. Or Partly Dead. Bring the bodies of your fellows, one a day may be brought to life once more, Aware of themselves. And in control of their own fate."

((I would assume Defy Death could work on any corpse. Not just a minion.))

I don't really like using Surpass Death on a mere goblin, but I'll +1 this anyway. Let's unlock Item Analysis too, since we have the XP for it.

Indeed, +1.