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[Tiruin]

I'll really have to back up Bauglir's notes here. He states it very concisely: Good communication equals a fulfilling future, or in the very least, security within your own words without falling primarily to bias or conclusion purely by assumption.

^

If she invites you to her house often, you are miles beyond casual flirtation and ambiguous social cues.

Stepping in to say: NO. [...]

I'd like to know the context here before poking at anything.
Because its reasonable. Anything else is implied within what may happen.
Inviting someone else to your abode = good friendship/trust, amongst many, many things. Re-railing on the tangent of recent interests here is a whole other story (not mentioned by nenjin) here in that quote.

[Jo]

Hey JBra how'd this end up?

Whatever you decided if this lady wasn't down to make out or whatever you should probably let her go.

You really don't want to be one of those 'friends' with a girl when you really aren't. You want more, so you are sitting there tortured and neutered instead of looking around for someone who actually wants you.

Don't be that neutered guy, pining after a girl for years when you could be having a great life.

[Tiruin]

Or...err, y'know, you could still be friends with her? Since there's no necessary 'limit' in being friends with a person in what y'all could do (just how or what, and even that isn't limited--just by knowledge)?

I mean, its kinda...actually, really harsh to just break up with someone (ie 'No friendship I:') when you've...liked-liked that person more after being friends with them. As if 'if you can't be more for me, then I'm breaking up with you.' >.> What 'more' is there other than poking at what is known to be 'more'?

Unless I totally misread the tone there, Jo. ._.

[JBramhall]

Hey JBra how'd this end up?

It has kinda just stopped. She decided to call this weekend off.I guess it didnt mean anything to her.

Whatever you decided if this lady wasn't down to make out or whatever you should probably let her go.

I have basically done this. I realize It will lead to nothing. She doesn't feel anything back towards me, atleast, that's what my personal trainer and several other mates have told me since she basically has stopped messaging me now.

She was the last thing I thought of when I was in a car crash yesterday when I saw the car about to hit me, but I can't tell her that. I thought, 'It was a shame I never did anything further to attempt to create a relationship with Alesha. I was always a bad friend. I’m sorry Alesha… Have a good life". She doesn't really want to talk about my crash or about anything to me so I guess I know her opinion of me.

You really don't want to be one of those 'friends' with a girl when you really aren't. You want more, so you are sitting there tortured and neutered instead of looking around for someone who actually wants you.

Don't be that neutered guy, pining after a girl for years when you could be having a great life.

Yea, this is what everyone has told me recently. It has finally soaked in this weekend. I guess it is a good thing I have basically figured that nothing will exist between us, just friendship.

[Jo]

Or...err, y'know, you could still be friends with her? Since there's no necessary 'limit' in being friends with a person in what y'all could do (just how or what, and even that isn't limited--just by knowledge)?

I mean, its kinda...actually, really harsh to just break up with someone (ie 'No friendship I:') when you've...liked-liked that person more after being friends with them. As if 'if you can't be more for me, then I'm breaking up with you.' >.> What 'more' is there other than poking at what is known to be 'more'?

Unless I totally misread the tone there, Jo. ._.

Well not sure about tone Tiruin. I just meant that if it's totally killing you and keeping you from moving forward with other people then you need to break it off. Haven't you seen a friend who liked someone for a long time and so never dated anyone else? It's sad. It's a trap guys will get into sometimes. They can't see all the other opportunities for happiness because they are hung up on this "one perfect girl".

Also, it's not about friendship. These things aren't friendships. The girl is friends, sure, but the guy isn't. You can be buddies someday, for sure, but it takes separation.

A friendship is an equal thing. Wanting to date or fuck a girl and her being 'just friends' is not in any way a friendship. It's why a dude can have a lot of guy friends but female friends are pretty rare.

I've seen this with lady friends of mine as well. Like they'll be kinda frumpy and totally into a guy but he's got other girlfriends and just likes to talk to her a lot.

That's not friendship, at all. It's unequal. One side is fine but the other is in emotional agony.

Not like I can ever tell anyone about it though. You experience, realize how fucked up it is, and never do it again.

I've been with more girls than I can remember. 50? 80? I dunno. There's only 2 that I'm still in contact with. I'm on good terms with the rest, sure, but calling once a week or daily is usually not something you can do with someone you've been in love with.

Friendship is not just a lower form of love, nor is it a consolation prize. It's totally and completely different.

If you think that you'd settle for being friends because you can't be with a girl, then you are wrong. You'll never be just friends. It'll be a girl you want to be with but can't, and you'll be tortured. Sometimes, maybe, a few years apart will end up with you just being friends. Maybe. It's rare, but maybe.

How many guy friends do you have that torture you sexually, who you fantasize about fucking but can't. None. Because they are friends. That's what a friend is.

[Tiruin]

Err, do note for posterity, I'm asexual. XD So...while I get the understanding there, its...misplaced, if it was meant only to me since I can't understand that...err, kind of stuff.. For lack of knowing that. (And sorry if it came off wrong! :x)

But I did assume as if you meant stuff towards friendship as if it was a separate entity with all the other intervening qualities, so I worded it that way. Oops assumptions. I don't think friendship is in anyway lower than anything. ..Or if there's a degree to compare those at all, given the vast meaning given to it, but I do know how best it can be.

Also glad to see you're OK, JB.

[Jo]

Hey JBra how'd this end up?

It has kinda just stopped. She decided to call this weekend off.I guess it didnt mean anything to her.

Whatever you decided if this lady wasn't down to make out or whatever you should probably let her go.

I have basically done this. I realize It will lead to nothing. She doesn't feel anything back towards me, atleast, that's what my personal trainer and several other mates have told me since she basically has stopped messaging me now.

She was the last thing I thought of when I was in a car crash yesterday when I saw the car about to hit me, but I can't tell her that. I thought, 'It was a shame I never did anything further to attempt to create a relationship with Alesha. I was always a bad friend. I’m sorry Alesha… Have a good life". She doesn't really want to talk about my crash or about anything to me so I guess I know her opinion of me.

You really don't want to be one of those 'friends' with a girl when you really aren't. You want more, so you are sitting there tortured and neutered instead of looking around for someone who actually wants you.

Don't be that neutered guy, pining after a girl for years when you could be having a great life.

Yea, this is what everyone has told me recently. It has finally soaked in this weekend. I guess it is a good thing I have basically figured that nothing will exist between us, just friendship.

Well man, that's sad. It's good to get it over with though. It's hard to just 'tell' someone how this works. They have to have experienced it. This is your 'she is not into you' moment. It's lesson we all learn and it sucks every time.

[Jo]

Err, do note for posterity, I'm asexual. XD So...while I get the understanding there, its...misplaced, if it was meant only to me since I can't understand that...err, kind of stuff.. For lack of knowing that. (And sorry if it came off wrong! :x)

But I did assume as if you meant stuff towards friendship as if it was a separate entity with all the other intervening qualities, so I worded it that way. Oops assumptions. I don't think friendship is in anyway lower than anything. ..Or if there's a degree to compare those at all, given the vast meaning given to it, but I do know how best it can be.

Also glad to see you're OK, JB.

Asexual. What's that mean? You don't jerk off? You don't find people attractive? Or you just don't date? I've known young people, under 20 or so, tell me they are asexual but really they just aren't ready to engage in the dating scene. That's fine. I've had people in their mid 20's tell me this and really they are just anti-social and would rather watch anime than socialize. Also fine. It's all fine.

The younger version tends not to last long. Hormones and life tend to change people.

Just curious. Never judging. Just curious.

EDIT: Maybe that's a different thread though. We are here for JB.

[Tiruin]

>.>
<_<
Err, you would note that yeah--I get that people can be confused and rather adopt that idea because [reasons in between] but I'm just sharing that bit because that is pretty much me. Laying down a disclaimer: I'm not speaking about the whole entirety--just myself. Asexual in my context = just as the name implies; I'm not aromantic or such though :v Because its something I've come to known...like, ever. Over the years. And mighty sure of it.

So...yeah. Other than guessing while delivering reasonable contexts [though it may be... awkward in this situation], you could just ask {which you did in the first 4 words, before trailing off...} Because it clears ambiguity firsthand.
So no biggie there.

Hey JBra how'd this end up?

It has kinda just stopped. She decided to call this weekend off.I guess it didnt mean anything to her.

Whatever you decided if this lady wasn't down to make out or whatever you should probably let her go.

I have basically done this. I realize It will lead to nothing. She doesn't feel anything back towards me, atleast, that's what my personal trainer and several other mates have told me since she basically has stopped messaging me now.

She was the last thing I thought of when I was in a car crash yesterday when I saw the car about to hit me, but I can't tell her that. I thought, 'It was a shame I never did anything further to attempt to create a relationship with Alesha. I was always a bad friend. I’m sorry Alesha… Have a good life". She doesn't really want to talk about my crash or about anything to me so I guess I know her opinion of me.

Err, JB, I've to poke at the ambiguity part--its in Bauglir's note about how assumptions really mess up things when they become conclusions. They're better off used as guides when trying to get the idea on what others think--especially that situation; don't let it be a conclusion (because a TON of things could've gone by which makes it =/= Knowing her opinion of ya. You do know one thing--but that one thing is merely a possibility amongst the many, many ideas which she may actually think about you.)

So out of context in this situation: Just talk to her about it o_O It may also be that she's respecting your healing//recent events by not talking about it. Really out of context so I'm only guessing here.

[I'm responding in my assumption of a negative perception of her @you. This is just one way that it may happen]

[Cheesecake]

I'm gonna be that little voice that pops in and says "Don't give up."

But I get that this time period isn't quite a good time for either of you, so don't take it as "Never stop hounding her."

Again, don't assume that she cancelled because it didn't mean much to her. Unless you know the reason and you've witheld some info, she has a thousand reasons why she's cancelled. Maybe college, maybe family, but probably not because she doesn't mean much.

Saying I like you to someone is not a way to break a friendship, unless you want the friendship to break. I liked a girl for over a year. The first time I asked her out, we didn't talk for a month. We (or I, actually) tried to sit as far from her, or at least put our friend between as a wall. Basically, looking back, I don't think it was as bad as I thought it was. All the problems I thought I had were caused by my insecurity.

I've asked her twice, both times no, both times it was awkward for what seemed like forever, but we're fine now. She even gave me condoms when I left for college. I've come to learn it's not a cue that she likes me, just that she's comfortable around me.

So, I'll say it again, don't lose hope. This is your first time with something like this, right? Next time will be your second time! And you'll do much better. Losing is fun, I think we can all agree.

[gimlet]

One way I put it into perspective is - all the bad feelings, the emotions, the longing you feel - that's umpty million years of evolution trying to get you off your ass and get hooked up.   Don't let it take control of you, realize what it is and don't let it get you down,  keep your eyes open for somebody else you think is cute and smart and funny and loyal and try again, and again and again if you have to.  And grit your teeth, 'cause you probably will have to try a bunch of times, MOST of which have absolutely nothing to do with anything like "your desirabilty" or "your worth as a human" - it's most often bad timing, or some mismatch of preferences, or various other random crap you just can't control.  Keep trying and you're likely to connect with somebody,  mope around and repeatedly bash against the same unbreakable block, not so much.

Note that I'm not saying to quit at the first little speedbump, but if it's just not working it's in your best interest to try something else...

[JBramhall]

well, I've fucked up (Again... what a shock)

I was talking to my best mate (the other guy who was with us when I told her I liked her)

He told me that she said to him that she finds me "Annoying". He then told me that "[he] also finds me annoying at times"

I can take this from him because he is my best mate and was willing to come out and say it to my face, what I cant understand is WHY THE FUCK COULDN'T SHE JUST COME OUT AND SAY THIS!?!?

He told me that this was a couple of days after that weekend. I drove back home and got really fucken mad. That is saying something as it takes a lot for me to be pissed off at my best friends.

I angrily messaged her on Facebook: "im sorry that you find me annoying."

Her: "More like stubborn"

Me: "that is not what you said to j"

Her: "I said nothing to J??"

Me: "j told me that a while ago you said that you find me annoying."

Her: "Yes you get on my nerves occasionally"

My response two hours later against the advice of some of the people I respect in my life was "like when?"

Another 10 hours passed before I sent another message of: "what gets on your nerves"


My best friend told me today that she messaged him immediately and said that she thinks she made me mad. she doesn't realize the half of it. and I learnt she was back in town and had been for about a week before We chatted (Surprise, surprise, I started that conversation as well)

Apparently she is worried that I will still be fucked off next weekend when we are all going on a holiday a few hundred kms away for J's Birthday. I have told him that I would have canned and just stayed at home drinking if it wasn't his birthday. he wasn't happy about that. I hate this shit about humans. you can never understand what they are thinking...

Edit: And it turns out she has a light case of influenza. It is why she is back in Ashburton. Why she didn't tell me that and only that she was sick and there is nothing the doctors can do about it... I don't know. That was when I learnt that she was back. She told my best mate "J" that about 4 days ago... (in a conversation she started with him) fuck that bitch.

[Tiruin]

JBramhall, one very concise tip I'll give you is stop condemning people and understand them instead.
Since you brought this all up here--I'd take it you're seeking for advice and are frustrated.
Check Bauglir's note: You are giving your viewpoint of the situation; any answer we give is based on that line. The best thing here is to communicate with them (unless you're unsure 'how' to, because that's also a very crucial point).

I hate this shit about humans. you can never understand what they are thinking...

Drop that kind of thinking because it just keeps your understanding stunted.
(Especially if you say it literally like that)
You can understand what they're thinking, but the thing is--you should communicate with them.
And communication has a myriad number of ways it works out: I challenge you to understand that instead of being frustrated [and then condemning others or the human race...to be pedantic and literal].

I can take this from him because he is my best mate and was willing to come out and say it to my face, what I cant understand is WHY THE FUCK COULDN'T SHE JUST COME OUT AND SAY THIS!?!?
[...]

Why ask us, when you could instead directly ask her? It helps because it won't let you blow up. One has expectations, so instead of acting as if they're doing this to hurt you (or the lack of acting to do this and it does hurt you), act instead to solve your problems. Instead of leaving them implied.

As an aside--realize that you're putting unspoken expectations here--yeah, there's already a comparison between 'your best mate' and 'her'. And from my PoV, I dislike that you're calling her a bitch straight out, online because of what just happened. When you're emotionally affected; withdraw and think about what you're going to do, and what you're going to say, lest you trip over your own understanding.

Don't condemn people because of expectations which you expect are already implied. Communicate with them. Keep a positive attitude on.

Because when people say 'you're annoying', they're describing your attitude during {a certain time} in {a certain situation}.
Not the entirety of your existence.

[...] She told my best mate "J" that about 4 days ago... (in a conversation she started with him) [SNIPPED]

Stop assuming conclusions here and approach and communicate with them. It's this kind of reaction to the situation which will not help you. It may help you vent--but that's as far as it goes (and it doesn't help that the words and ideas you use are..hurtful towards others).

...Also you could use better words than being 'fucked up' or those other...instances there. Makes it very hard to understand when you're using jargon or lingo.

[ChairmanPoo]

If I were you I'd disengage and avoid further contact.

(And yeah, I know that it's more easily said than done. But in the long run you'll be saving yourself a lot of pain)

[Tiruin]

Pain's based on a lot of things though Self-inflicted [ie That's how I think about that//how I respond to that] or otherwise.

We don't know the full story, so disengaging and avoiding contact is just one of the many...many actions than can be taken. [Something I'd advise not to be done, because the situation seems mundane to me. Emotionally charged with a ton of expectations, though, and a lot of lacking communication {as in, understanding what the other party's reason is...and not 'talking to others'}]