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Author Topic: Fortress Defense  (Read 840 times)

schlake

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Fortress Defense
« on: June 24, 2015, 01:25:09 pm »

In the year(?) I've been playing I've tried a few different fortress defenses.  By far changing the population cap to 12 is the most effective, but I've also figured out how to make defensive ditches that work as well.

Recently, my current fort, I learned how to make giant green serrated glass disks.  I made the disks to buy weapons with, but I tried out traps as well.  It seems I can put ten disks into a trap, and I can line my entrance hallway with them.

I appear to have no humans, elves, or goblins.  I'm at least fifteen years into my embark and none have been seen.

There are giants though, and kea.  My entrance hall is 3 tiles wide (I originally had the TP in there), so I have a 4x3 block of traps with 10 blades per trap.  So far, nothing has made it past three traps.  But in the grand scheme of things, I probably need something better right?  Heavy metal disks, instead of green glass?  And how many rows deep do they need to be?
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2015, 01:28:39 pm »

If you're truly paranoid, I'd suggest a mixture of large serrated disks, giant corkscrews, and silver spiked balls. This will offer a perfect mixture of cutting, piercing, and bludgeoning damage to any would be invaders.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2015, 01:57:59 pm »

It also depends on what you're defending against, as normal traps are useless against Titans/FBs. I tend to go for lots of cage traps for ordinary pests (goblins and such) and menacing spike trap arrays, usually with green glass spikes, but when I opened up for HFS I added candy ones as well. Airlocking drawbridges to contain really tough opponents is also recommended (I've never encountered a Bronze Colossus, but I assume you'd need iron or better to hurt it, but I think a cage trap will do to capture it. I'd check the wiki on that, though). You can then eliminate them with a cave-in trap that you build while the opponent is contained.
My experience from the single time I've used regular weapon traps was that they'd jam after killing a few invaders, so I'd say a 50 strong goblin/undead invasion will probably make it though (provided they actually continue, rather than standing and looking at a dead leader).
Now, you probably have no elves or humans, at least, and goblins and undead are not that likely after all that time, but you could exit, make a copy of your save, start up and retire your fort, and then look at reembarking at the same place to see what neighbors you have. Then exit, throw the save away, and restore the copy to continue.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2015, 02:02:47 pm »

Undead do attack a lot more often than the goblins, so piercing traps should be low priority. Cutting them into pieces is effective, especially with thirty hacks from a serrated disk. Silver spiked balls will often smash them into custard, so that's another good defense.
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Quote from: Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum
I threw night creature blood into a night creature's heart and she pulled it out and bled to death.
Quote from: Eric Blank
Places to jibber madly at each other, got it
Quote from: NJW2000
If any of them are made of fire, throw stuff, run, and think non-flammable thoughts.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2015, 02:12:14 pm »

My limited experience from undead attacks is that they start early (I had one case where they came to celebrate the fortress' first birthday), but run out of steam within 5 years, while the goblins just have kept coming, in one fortress 1-2 times a year during the 18+ years I played that fortress.
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Albedo

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2015, 05:25:59 pm »

A lot of what you're "discovering" is basic "how to" stuff, info that would be found in any game manual (if there was one). The wiki is the closest thing we can offer:

o http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Trap#Weapon_trap
o http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Trap_component
o http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Civilization
o http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Siege

Give those a skim, follow any links that look interesting, and enjoy. GL!
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2015, 06:13:59 pm »

Keep in mind that glass is a pretty crappy weapon material, even compared to something like copper. 

Also, you're better off spreading your weapons out (unless you're just jamming empty spaces full with excess glass you get 'for free') because weapon traps jam, and if you put all your good weapons in one trap, then...

Anyway, yeah, the wiki has a lot of basic concepts covered, and some good advanced traps like the automatic freezer. 

Larix has a great thread on automated defenses, as well, which definitely fall more in the "advanced" territory.
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vjmdhzgr

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2015, 06:07:48 am »

Undead do attack a lot more often than the goblins, so piercing traps should be low priority. Cutting them into pieces is effective, especially with thirty hacks from a serrated disk. Silver spiked balls will often smash them into custard, so that's another good defense.
Cutting undead into pieces is generally not recommended as most (all?) Of the ways undead can attack a fortress end up with something to reanimated the severed limbs of the undead, so cutting them apart just makes them stronger. Blunt weapons are what you want as those will pulp their body parts rather than sever them, and necromancer can't reanimated piles of pulpy flesh.

EDIT:Accidentally quoted the wrong person before, fixed it.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 09:36:19 am by vjmdhzgr »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2015, 07:35:11 am »

Well, I don't cut either goblins or undead apart, generally, but trap them in cages. No mess to clean up before the caravan comes that way. At times I have deanimated undead, but so far I haven't seen any be reanimated (in my latest siege I found a deanimated goblin on the top of the courtyard roof. I guess it was taken care of by the local wildlife, which the buggers were chasing. Also, it happens that invaders are flung when I close drawbridges, and parts of them can come lose at those times).
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2015, 11:59:44 am »

Due to ingenious designs turning necromancers into assets for a fortress, (see Loud Whisper's "necrobacon" design where he used necromancers to re-raise pigs to force extra muscle growth for greater butchery yields...) Toady went and severely nerfed necromancers, so they aren't nearly as aggressive as they once were at raising the undead.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
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Albedo

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2015, 01:34:05 pm »

If you're truly paranoid, I'd suggest ... silver spiked balls. This will offer ... bludgeoning damage to any would be invaders.

Common misconception, but spiked balls do piercing damage (only) - that's what the "spikes" are all about. They are simply the multi-attack version of a corkscrew, the same way the serrated disk is the multi- version of the giant axe.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Trap_component#Spiked_ball

For best bludgeoning, 10 silver hammers, or a pressure plate with a nice lead-bar collapsing floor overhead. Bonus points for making a q-s of lead bars, waste-stones and other dross on that floor tile. Bonk-bonk on the head.
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schlake

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2015, 02:12:21 pm »

I've had undead on one embark.  As best as I can tell, I got a corner of something bad in my embark.  Early on, I got a message that a strange mist was on part of my embark.  I wasn't anywhere near it, so I ignored it and played on, thinking I might want to wall that part off to block line of sight to my wagon.

By the time I realized what happened, my fort belonged to an undead gila monster.

But, in the future, I should put rows of hammers first, then blades!

My goal really is not to have to make a military.  I just want a tunnel of traps that nothing can make it through.  I'll deal with the TP being destroyed constantly by building lots of them.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2015, 03:53:54 pm »

I mostly do without a military, and have the goal of not having to use it. However, it tends to be needed for mopping up in various ways:
- Killing off injured, but not dead, enemies.
- Put down enemies escaping during pitting (after they've been caught in cage traps and stripped).
- Eliminating enemies that just camp by your entrance, but refuse to meet your traps.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2015, 04:45:28 pm »

I've had undead on one embark.  As best as I can tell, I got a corner of something bad in my embark.  Early on, I got a message that a strange mist was on part of my embark.  I wasn't anywhere near it, so I ignored it and played on, thinking I might want to wall that part off to block line of sight to my wagon.

By the time I realized what happened, my fort belonged to an undead gila monster.

But, in the future, I should put rows of hammers first, then blades!

My goal really is not to have to make a military.  I just want a tunnel of traps that nothing can make it through.  I'll deal with the TP being destroyed constantly by building lots of them.

You should definitely read Larix's thread, because that's exactly what his thread is about.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

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schlake

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Re: Fortress Defense
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2015, 04:57:07 pm »


You should definitely read Larix's thread, because that's exactly what his thread is about.

That was the thread that led me into making my first trap!  Now I have 12 traps!
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