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Author Topic: Painting Industry  (Read 9917 times)

AceSV

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Painting Industry
« on: June 22, 2015, 09:34:15 pm »

Art History class has got me thinking.  Ancient Egyptians used paint, heck, cavemen used paint.  Dwarves could make paint.  Dwarves could totally paint things. 

The Egyptians used tempera paints, which if I've got it correct, are pigments mixed with egg yolk, though other biological materials like milk casein or honey can be used instead.  Oil Painting, pigments mixed with oils like linseed or poppyseed oil, started between the 5th and 9th centuries in Afghanistan, but didn't reach Europe until 1500, after the tech cut-off.  I'm assuming that the creation of paint is a simple matter of mixing pigment (i.e dimple dye) with binder (i.e. eggs) and that more complicated colors can be achieved by mixing more than one paint together.  The metal tubes for storing paint were not invented until the industrial age, so I think paint would have to be mixed on the spot.  You would not have paint stockpiles, but rather use the pigment and binder for the painting reaction.

So now that you've got your paints, what are you going to put them on?  Those dwarvey Egyptians painted a lot on stone, for example The Sphinx was once painted in brilliant colors and tomb walls were often painted in addition to engraved.  But that would be complicated.  It would be easier for painters to bring in finished goods or furniture to be painted after production, the same way jewel encrusters do.  Cloth (and maybe leather) finished goods should be excluded, since they should be dyed instead, although a Painters' workshop might replace the Dyer's Workshop.  (A Pigmentarium?)

But what about just making a painting?  Canvas was probably possible before 1400 as it was used in sails, but it was not popular in painting until after 1400.  Instead, wood panels were the medium of choice for most of the middle ages.  Cue up some panels at your Carpenter, or maybe just use Wood Blocks as they are and then order those dwarves to paint.  Out east, paper was also used to make scroll paintings, but we'd have to invent paper first (1)(2). 

I'm not sure if you can paint ceramics using tempera paints, since glazes seem to be the way of things, except that Greek pottery had art that looks like paintings.  If you can, you could make decorative vases or ceramic panels as well. 

Back in medieval days, art was often commissioned, so perhaps there could be some mechanic where you could order your dwarves to paint a particular deity or historical figure or a portrait of a fortress subject, or a specific subject like animals, national symbols or geometric shapes.  Filling your halls with propaganda posters or abstract art deco or a series of portraits of dead nobles with moving eyes could be amusing. 

Another fun little trick could be the ability to paint blocks, so you could build a big blue gate decorated with wild animals (the real one is actually not pained). 
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2015, 09:37:53 pm »

I like this idea. +1 support.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2015, 11:27:13 pm »

Painting as a suggestion has been around many times before, and there are many mods that accomplish similar effects.

The problem more lies in the fact that it has no real practical use as of yet. 
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2015, 11:39:24 pm »

Neither does any of the crafting industries.
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BoredVirulence

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2015, 09:00:42 am »

I just want to say, there is no reason why we can't store paint in barrels or pots. If its egg based, it might spoil, thats a possibility. Other than that though I see no limitation in storage.
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Shazbot

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 10:38:21 am »

Oil and dye or just linseed oil furniture polish painted on all my wooden furniture would tremendously improve dwarven bedroom quality. Painted furniture assuming various colors would make for rather festive housing complexes. Cheery hide-root red doors and linseed oil polished beds with maybe a emerald green cabinet...
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Calidovi

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2015, 11:44:00 am »

So basically using engraving mechanics with various metals and a bunch of eggs?
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Shazbot

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2015, 08:42:42 am »

You know how sometimes you're building a really top-end tomb in glorious marble for your gallantly-fallen expedition leader when suddenly you hit some ugly stone like malachite? Now you can just paint that tile white.
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AceSV

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2015, 10:41:45 pm »

I just want to say, there is no reason why we can't store paint in barrels or pots. If its egg based, it might spoil, thats a possibility. Other than that though I see no limitation in storage.

I think what would actually happen is that the eggs set and harden after a couple of days, so instead of a barrel of paint, you would have a solid block of crud. 
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Sirbug

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2015, 12:10:40 pm »

Painting can be an object that can only be placed attached to wall.

I don't think painting is very dwarfy, my personal idea is to have different races have different art. Dwarves engrave, humans should make paintings and tapestry and sell you, elves should probably make bonsai trees and also bring them to sell. Trees that are grown into shapes like statues.
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Alfrodo

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2015, 12:48:04 pm »

Painting can be an object that can only be placed attached to wall.

I don't think painting is very dwarfy, my personal idea is to have different races have different art. Dwarves engrave, humans should make paintings and tapestry and sell you, elves should probably make bonsai trees and also bring them to sell. Trees that are grown into shapes like statues.

This is a grown mango wood figurine of a dwarf. The dwarf is striking a menacing pose.

Now we just need paintings and tapestry for humans, even though we have something like tapestry.

This is a hemp fiber figurine of a dwarf. The dwarf is striking a menacing pose.

One could interpret this as a plushie toy or a tapestry, and cloth decorations with depictions of objects could count.

This is a troll fir sock.  On the item is a well crafted depiction of a dwarf in hemp fiber.


Although, the player should have an option to allow paintings, even if it's "undwarvenly."  Player freedom is important.

Another option is letting human immigrants with "painter" skill do it.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2015, 12:51:57 pm »

Yeah, we can make wood crafts and use bronze, even though those are elven and human things respectively. But I love the idea of the elves growing statues and such, and humans making tapestries and paintings.
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Sirbug

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2015, 01:27:19 pm »

Although, the player should have an option to allow paintings, even if it's "undwarvenly."  Player freedom is important.
Another option is letting human immigrants with "painter" skill do it.
Personally, I am keen on having more objects that you need to purchase. But that's just my opinion.
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Cool, but wouldn't this likely lead to tongues having a '[SPEACH]' tag, and thus via necromancy we would have nearly unkillable reanimated tongues following necromancers spamming 'it is sad but not unexpected'?

AceSV

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2015, 11:24:13 pm »

Although, the player should have an option to allow paintings, even if it's "undwarvenly."  Player freedom is important.
Another option is letting human immigrants with "painter" skill do it.
Personally, I am keen on having more objects that you need to purchase. But that's just my opinion.

Actually, I agree with you there, I would like to see more materials that you have to trade for and can't produce yourself.  However, improving trade is a different topic.  I think it's fair to suggest that Dwarf Fortress could have Painter's Workshop that dwarves don't have access to it, without modding. 

You're right, is not very dwarfy, but is, IMO, and is debatable.  And if you've got paint and paintable surfaces, you're going to have players asking, why can't we paint paintings? 

There are a lot of art styles in the history of the world that would make more sense for dwarves than the Renaissance and Impressionist era paintings that usually leap to mind:

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Naryar

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Re: Painting Industry
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2015, 02:51:17 am »

Dwarves already have dye, and make images out of materials on crafts. It would be just a matter of expanding the system, also i'm pretty sure dwarves should be able to make "paint" out of various minerals, for many different colors. Malachite is green paint, microcline/cobaltite is light blue paint, hematite is red paint, galena/any of the fluxes/gypsum plaster is white paint, etc, etc.

As for the binder... eh... cement ?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 02:53:35 am by Naryar »
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