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Author Topic: Cavern oddities?  (Read 1005 times)

PatrikLundell

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Cavern oddities?
« on: June 22, 2015, 03:51:23 am »

I have two unusual things happening to my caverns:
1. The second cavern is subject to long stretches of emptiness, i.e. periods where no critters are in the cavern. I have a Gremlin trap (proven to work) but as far as I've seen Gremlins sneak in while other critters are in the cavern anyway. I think the cavern has been empty for something like half a year by now, and that's something I haven't seen before. I've checked and rechecked that I've actually mapped the whole cavern, so there can't be something camping in an unexplored corner. As far as I know, Gremlins are the only cavern sneakers, and my dorfs busy with securing the cavern haven't bumped into anything. Is there an explanation for the emptiness?
I've also seen a somewhat higher rate of double critter waves (i.e. two kinds of critters in a cavern at the same time) than normal in to first cavern, although no such case during the current empty spell.
2. I have a disappearing lake in the third cavern, i.e. the water depth in the lake has gradually decreased to the point it's now evaporating. I have confirmed I haven't dug any leaks into it (not digging at all underneath it or in the cavern itself). However, I've got a rampaging FB made out of fire that's set the moss on fire in most of the cavern. Can this fire have caused the lake to dry out?
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Pirate Santa

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2015, 04:48:05 am »

Do you have any cavern creatures caged but not tamed? If so they still count against the number of wild creatures you can have on the map and prevent new ones spawning.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2015, 04:53:50 am »

No, I don't have any untamed cavern critters (I've got a berserking caged semi-wild Gremlin), and even so, they'd have to be fairly numerous to block spawning, as a new group generally spawns immediately the last member of the previous group is caught. Groups come and go normally in the two other caverns.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2015, 10:36:07 am »

Thanks to bugs, sometimes, you can "tap out" all wild migrating beasts for a given layer, but it's really rare to do so before the 10th year unless you're being REALLY genocidal. 
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2015, 02:07:45 pm »

Well, I'm at 4:th or 5:th year, have captured at most a handful of animals from that cavern, and I don't think I've got any kills in it. There haven't been any FB visits to that cavern either...
My remaining, berserk Semi-Wild Gremlin (now pastured in a sealed off pasture) came from either the 2:nd or the 3:rd cavern, however. I should probably put it down to see if anything happens; it's beyond recovery anyway.
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NJW2000

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2015, 05:11:41 pm »

Wait, I trap enough cavern beasts, they stop bugging me?
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2015, 07:32:24 pm »

Wait, there's cavern normalties?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2015, 01:25:23 am »

Obviously, the caverns are completely abnormal from an RL perspective, but so is much of the rest of DF.
Well, normally a new group of critters enter a cavern immediately after the last one of the previous group does. Occasionally you have two groups concurrently, but that's the exception (FBs fall outside of the critter category here). And the surface doesn't actually behave differently from the caverns in critter migration regards, excepts that flowing water seems to have its own critter group, somehow.
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Loci

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2015, 07:09:10 pm »

The second cavern is subject to long stretches of emptiness, i.e. periods where no critters are in the cavern.

There is a limit on the total number of "migrating creature groups" on site--this limit applies to *all* groups (surface, caverns, magma sea, and below). It's likely that you have one or more groups "stuck" somewhere on the map (like birds stuck flying, troglodytes stuck climbing, magma crabs stuck swimming, etc.). Clear out the stuck groups and you will receive new visitors.

Do you have any cavern creatures caged but not tamed? If so they still count against the number of wild creatures you can have on the map and prevent new ones spawning.

Caged creatures do not count against the cap. Only wild uncaged creatures do, though a single creature reserves the entire group slot. When you kill or cage the last member of a group, a new group will spawn almost immediately (though it may not be in the same area).

Wait, I trap enough cavern beasts, they stop bugging me?

No, but if you trap one creature from several different groups and release them in "holding cells" then you can limit and/or prevent further migrations.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2015, 02:03:06 am »

Well, I don't have any campers. Critters come and go normally everywhere (including the surface) except in the empty second cavern. I have a slightly increased rate of dual groups, but it's by no means a constant phenomenon. My past experience with campers is that they block their own level, not any others. In fact, past camper problems have led me to revise my cavern securing strategies to make sure visitors to cavern entries secured by walls cannot climb up the walls to cluster there (which have happened in the past, and they have been impossible to hit by marksdwarves while there, for some reason), nor can trees grow to hoist campers in the air or block their exit. I do this by building my wall one tile from the edge (with a drawbridge to allow me to let desirable critters in), and if the entrance is more than one Z level high I build a roofing wall flush with the edge/entrance (extended upwards until I reach rock) to ensure the sealed off area is a single Z level high (don't forget to add a floor tile above the drawbridge!).

I've offed my gremlin, btw, but that didn't change anything, as expected.
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Loci

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2015, 02:25:38 pm »

If you post a save someone will look into it.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2015, 03:00:41 am »

The save has been uploaded to http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=10955
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Loci

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2015, 01:30:47 pm »

You have a group of Elk birds stuck in an inaccessible offshoot of the second cavern, and they've been there quite a while (oldest wild animals on the "Others" unit page). Dig to the left of the south-most stairway on z-level -58.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Cavern oddities?
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2015, 03:16:50 pm »

Thanks for looking Loci!

So, it was a complete, disconnected, section of cavern 2 (with a horrible vertical extent). Not exactly what I had expected. Well, expect the unexpected from DF, I guess.
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