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[notquitethere]

Nope. I don't see a reason to pick a side in this argument without knowing either side's stance. It's like living in Canada in ignorance of the US political system and trying to decide which President is better.

You can read. From mine and Persus' posts and anything else you might know, who is scummier? Even without placing a vote, where's your intuition lie here?

Blackmagechill: What is your take on the two current wagons; your own and NQT's?

Funnily enough, there's only one vote on me whilst there's two on you, so really the wagons are BMC and Flabort right now.

[Teneb]

unvote

EVERYBODY
Yes, I mean you too

I want Persus dead today. I'm not giving you any more reason than that. Either you lynch me, or you lynch Persus. Make your decision. Who do you trust?

There can only be one.

And if we lynch someone else? What then? Will you kill Persus in some other way? Should you die, do you expect your death to cause the rest of us to go after Persus?

Since you clearly are not willing to elaborate on why Persus should die, and stated you think BMC is town, could you instead say who among those on the BMC wagon are most probable scum to you and why?

[TheDarkStar]

NQT:

I don't disagree with anything you've said there. Nevertheless, this is the play I've chosen to make. Me or Persus?

If you don't disagree with what Jack said, then why aren't you doing what he suggests? Also, why are you so insistent that Persus be lynched?

Funnily enough, there's only one vote on me whilst there's two on you, so really the wagons are BMC and Flabort right now.

What do you think of the BMC and flabort wagons, then? Also, what do you think of people's suspicions on you?

flabort:

Blackmagechill: What is your take on the two current wagons; your own and NQT's?

BMC has requested replacement iirc.

[Lenglon]

Everyone voting BMC: What is your case for voting him?

Also- whoever stole it, you should own up to it.

Cheetar

BMC:

You vote Cheeetar for asking about role info, but then you do the exact same thing later in the same post when you ask Shakerag for role info. Why?

Because finding out what someone can do with their role is advantageous to scum, finding out if you can confirm if someone is town or not via actions isn't.
...
OSG:

Blackmagechill, you didn't even wait for me to respond to your vote before switching to somebody else. Put a little conviction in.

Cheeetar:You're at least putting in an effort, and I'm still thinking in terms of pressure votes. OSG's previous posts have contributed literally zero to the conversation, whereas you've had suspicions and questions the whole time. And are you sure it'll show up as them having two votes? Not playing is the biggest tell there is.

Shakerag:

I then play back three soundbytes  of that last part once more.

OSG's previous posts have contributed literally zero to the conversation

Not playing is the biggest tell there is.

Shakerag

After that, I point at my knife, then at BMC, then point at him several times more, then at one side of my lips then along my mouth over to the other side. and finally make an exaggerated shrug.

[Lenglon]

EBWOP: at the top of the above post there is supposed to be: I get out my phone and start playing audio recordings.

[Deus Asmoth]

NQT: I didn't actually realise that was a rap till the last line. On topic though, my general rule is that whenever someone offers me an ultimatum between themselves and someone else, I pick someone else. So if you really want me to pick between yourself and Persus, I'd vote for you. I won't be doing that at the moment though because I'm still concerned that it's all part of your cunning plan.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

flabort, lying and OMGUSing.

[Dorsidwarf]

NQT, why are you ignoring the one person with a vote on you to soapbox at people who say "Well you know my play and me, and I say I'm town, so lynch this person" is stupid?

What exactly makes you any more trustworthy than he other fifteeen people here? Why do your (unsubstantiated, unlike theirs) claims hold weight?

What do you say to the fact that the last Big New Tactic proposed in-game was scum Webadict's plot (He won)?

[TheDarkStar]

Something else occurred to me: NQT claims he knows that Persus is bad, but Persus has barely posted. He's made four(?) posts in the entire game. NQT might use a very analytical approach to finding scum, but the posts are generally beginning-of-game responses to questions. I'll take my vote off NQT when he explains how he used a tiny amount of information to get a scum read and why, based on that, we should vote for Persus rather than him.

[notquitethere]

Teneb

Will you kill Persus in some other way?

Heh, no...

>_>

<_<

Wh-what gave you that impression?

Should you die, do you expect your death to cause the rest of us to go after Persus?

Depends how I flip, doesn't it?

Since you clearly are not willing to elaborate on why Persus should die, and stated you think BMC is town, could you instead say who among those on the BMC wagon are most probable scum to you and why?

Actually looking at the reasons, they all seem pretty legit. I'd be voting BMC if I didn't think the structure of it seemed too much like a D1 mislynch. Given BMC's shiftiness, I wouldn't be surprised if he flipped 3rd party. Hell, maybe we should lynch him as a serial killer. But for now I'm thunderdoming Persus.


TDS

NQT:

I'm shaking!

1. If you don't disagree with what Jack said, then why aren't you doing what he suggests? 2. Also, why are you so insistent that Persus be lynched?

1. D1 there's less opportunity cost for trying something bold. If I just play by the numbers, we'll probably mislynch and I could well get nightkilled. There's time later on to play optimally. 2. Didn't you get my memo? I'm not giving reasons. I did perform a neat little rap though.

What do you think of the BMC and flabort wagons, then? Also, what do you think of people's suspicions on you?

BMC wagon is probably not a member of a mafia team given that this is Bay12 and D1. Flabort only has two unconnected votes on him, one is RVS, one is just a question for additional clarification. It's not really a wagon.

Something else occurred to me: NQT claims he knows that Persus is bad, but Persus has barely posted. He's made four(?) posts in the entire game. NQT might use a very analytical approach to finding scum, but the posts are generally beginning-of-game responses to questions. I'll take my vote off NQT when he explains how he used a tiny amount of information to get a scum read and why, based on that, we should vote for Persus rather than him.

Okay I am actually shaking now. Please remove that vote. I just want Persus lynched today and I'm not going to explain myself until sometime later. I'm not going to change my mind on this just because someone's throwing around a bit of red text.


Deus

NQT: I didn't actually realise that was a rap till the last line.

Well, you could take it as a song or a poem. It's all about the delivery really.

On topic though, my general rule is that whenever someone offers me an ultimatum between themselves and someone else, I pick someone else. So if you really want me to pick between yourself and Persus, I'd vote for you. I won't be doing that at the moment though because I'm still concerned that it's all part of your cunning plan.

The trouble with you guys is that you're a bunch of cats, impossible to herd. I guess Persus is never going to be lynched at this rate...

*despairs*


Dorsi

NQT, why are you ignoring the one person with a vote on you to soapbox at people who say "Well you know my play and me, and I say I'm town, so lynch this person" is stupid?

But I did respond! I thought we shared a moment there.

What exactly makes you any more trustworthy than he other fifteeen people here? Why do your (unsubstantiated, unlike theirs) claims hold weight?

Dude, I'm not unsubstantiated, I have a theme song.

What do you say to the fact that the last Big New Tactic proposed in-game was scum Webadict's plot (He won)?

Both scum and town can propose bold new tactics. It's not alignment indicative. What do you think to the fact no one else seems to want to lynch me? It's impossible to lynch NQT, everyone knows that.

[Dorsidwarf]

NQT: Didn't parse that as being addressed to me due to lack of bold and other people demadning similat things.

[Dorsidwarf]

EBWP
In response to your question: People seem pretty caught up lunching BMC. And I wouldn't exacty call two votes nobody.

[flabort]

Nope. I don't see a reason to pick a side in this argument without knowing either side's stance. It's like living in Canada in ignorance of the US political system and trying to decide which President is better.

You can read. From mine and Persus' posts and anything else you might know, who is scummier? Even without placing a vote, where's your intuition lie here?

I know what you're trying to get at with that wink, and trust me, I don't know who the scum are any more than anybody else.

As far as Persus goes, his first post is a "I'm alive" post, then a post of answers. I'm fine with his answer to my question, he doesn't like being a third party but town and scum are fine; that answer is non-indicative of his alignment. He mutters about OSG's "restriction", and he mentions that there's a possibility (numerically correct) that there are no scum voting for BMC. After that you attack him, and he replies with a defense. I don't see where your attack on him came from and have no reason to vote him.

As far as you go, so far I only trust you as far as I can throw you. You opened with a single question, and it was tied to a vote. Your activity is the same as his, so I can't be voting either of you over that; because your second post only comes mere minutes behind his. Your answers in that post are odd; particularly the second answer to my questions, second answer to Toony's questions, your answer to shakerag and second answer to BMC, and most of all your answer to Jack where you encourage townies to employ an antitown tactic; other than that, being focused on the deaths of others, the words "my wincon", and denying... something mysterious, I guess, it's all mysterious. After that, you vote Persus with no explanation, encourage blindly sheeping your vote (which sheeping is considered scummy, FYI), and deny Persus the chance to defend himself.

Hmm. I didn't want to take a side, but now I will. NQT, and then Unvote because I don't have a vote to use.

[origamiscienceguy]

Gosh darn it. I thought I was almost done with my readspost but now I have to almost reavaluate it. Here goes again.

(I tries to geet eet out by tonite if posibel)

[origamiscienceguy]

This is a big read post with me basically making comments on every important post the person has said in the game so far. I was unhappy with my last attempt, and to show everybody that I am working on this, I'll release it in batches. Spoilers for convenience:

blackmagechill

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

blackmagechilli, how do you intend to find the terrorists?

Through liberal use of procured phone meta data and asking who wants to attend my totally legit "How to fund an Insurgency" seminars. Failing that, probably scumhunting.

BMC:  Do you feel particularly chill right now?

Sure. I've been reading over the last couple of BYORs though and it appears I have reason to be otherwise, because, sheesh, kills a plenty.

Lenglon: What did you ever do to piss webadict off bad enough to have this much of an annoying post restriction? Would rhyming be better or worse?

OSG: I see you have a ridiculous posting restriction as well. Can you even vote? Are you restricted to being completely clueless?

Shakerag: Do you think players who have a revive ability should be treated with mistrust?

Toonyman: Who would you roleblock tonight if you had a role similar to a paranormal style vengeful guard?

IronyOwl: What's the maximum number of SKs you think webadict would put in this game?

Reasonable questions and answers.

Also- whoever stole it, you should own up to it.

Cheetar:Why would anybody want to cough up role info this early in the game? I mean, unless you're worried if somebody could do you in with an extra vote without you knowing.

BMC: do you think the quote from the opening post

Even more bizarre was the parachute found in the engine that no one could identify as belonging to anyone.

is mechanically relevant to the game?

Pfft. Probably not. I mean, if it's impossible to identify, unless somebody claims to be a paratrooper or a melted GI Joe turncoat maybe, but I feel like that's unlikely.

Everyone:  Just as a kind of PSA thing, based on wording of things in my role, there may be a few (or more) abilities out there that can copy, steal, or remove abilities.  Also in the interest of disclosing information, I'm going to make a "pseudo-miller claim" such that my role prevents me from being inspected.  Also also, I'm town - not that I expect any of you to take me at my word.

Shakerag: Can you be tracked to prove that you didn't NK someone? Otherwise this looks like a piss poor scum attempt to avoid an inspect or an attempt to waste one to prove your point, either one being equally scummy, ridiculous role and circumstance bedamned.

flabort: I missed your question earlier, but I'd probably daykill OSG because he can contribute literally nothing to the day game of town. Knowing how these games usually run though he'd probably flip as a town medium or something similar.

The parachute might have belonged to the flight attendant at the beginning of the story or something. But that's just me.

Are you able to speak at all?

I nod twice.

So you can speak, there's just something that happens that's keeping you from doing so... right?

And in regards with the inspect with the chance to jail, I'd use it as an inspect normally because chances are if you're inspecting someone there's something about them that makes you think that they're some bad actor and thusly probably need the roleblock.

IronyOwl: Is being confirmed town a relief or are you afraid of getting NK'd or never being able to use your rule due to repeated jailings?

OSG: Am I going to have to translate my questions in german and then run your answers through a translator to get coherent answers? Because if so, UGH.

Nope...not anymore at least.

BMC:

You vote Cheeetar for asking about role info, but then you do the exact same thing later in the same post when you ask Shakerag for role info. Why?

Because finding out what someone can do with their role is advantageous to scum, finding out if you can confirm if someone is town or not via actions isn't.

Jack A T: It's not as if it's an unreasonable concern. If someone could track him and see that he wasn't NKing or didn't visit anybody in the night or whatever, it'd be really nice to be able to do to prove what he's doing.

OSG: So do you have a post restriction or not? Because it's starting to appear you were trying to avoid contributing AT ALL, which to me looks pretty damn scummy.

I disagree... finding out if someone is town based on actions still lets the scum know the actions that they have.

Cheeetar:You're at least putting in an effort, and I'm still thinking in terms of pressure votes. OSG's previous posts have contributed literally zero to the conversation, whereas you've had suspicions and questions the whole time. And are you sure it'll show up as them having two votes? Not playing is the biggest tell there is.

Shakerag: Where do I begin?

BMC:

Geez, guys.  On one hand you're all champing at the bit to kill me off or block me because I'm so dangerous, and then on the other hand you're trying to say my play is piss poor.  Can we make up our minds?

So the miller claim can do two things here. Cops can A) not inspect you and leave you to your own devices at night (which would no doubt be nice with the ridiculous shit you have cooked up) or B) they can inspect you and find out that you lied, or not believe you and waste an inspect. If you were town, you'd try and open up a path for the rest of us to clarify that you were.

But, anyway.  Rolefishing aside (as TDS noted), I am interpreting my abilities to say that, yes, I could be tracked although it is unlikely that you'd know what action I performed anyway. 

Did I ever ask about what your action was? Why would I want to know? As long as the person you visited doesn't die and flip town the next morning, I could really care less.

I liked how you pounced on OSG as a likely scapegoat for a D1 lynch.  I'm not a huge fan of D1 play, but if scum is just going to out themselves to me like that then I'll take it.

This is really funny, because me and OSG actually had the same amount of votes before you voted me, except I've actually been playing this entire time while he's been (maybe) restricted to broken english and complete inability to understand what's going on.

It seems like you don't want anybody really looking into what you're planning tonight, Shakerag. Hopefully you won't make it far enough to regret it when someone tracks you.

OSG: Did you mean the little byline thing under your role title?

It seems that you are trying to defend yourself with your high activity which scum can do just as well as town.

Also, I know nuh-sing is the name of one of my abilities, not the ability itself.

I'm having connectivity issues due to weather (fuck satellite internet!) and, as such, haven't been able to post/use the internet at all and with the coming weather probably won't be able to reliably for the next week so I'm going to have ask for a replacement.

And then you replace. At a time when you were close to being hammered. Could be a coincidence though.

Summary: never played with you before, so I don't exactly know how you play, but you seem to be desperately pulling unsound evidence to protect yourself. Slightly scummy but I'll see everybody else's arguments when I get to them. Maybe I'll change my mind.

Cheeetar

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dorsidwarf, at what point do you consider a person scummy enough to lynch on Day 1?
Lenglon, would you prefer to face a typical scum team, a large amount of unaligned serial killers, or a cult? Why?

NQT
Unvote
Shakerag

Unprompted wacky shenanigans, or required by his role? Who cares.

I must comment that both your questions answers would be helpful to scum.

Lenglon: Can you elaborate further on your decision?

Inspect with %chance kill. use?

Convoluted circumstances aside, yes. The chances are I'm inspecting somebody I am already suspicious of, in which case targeting them with a vigilante-esque kill is acceptable.

Still digging deeper for answers that could help scum. It sounds almost like you are a serial killer fishing for this information.

Everyone else If you had to daykill someone right now, who would you kill?

Oh, whoops- didn't notice this question. I'm actually fairly uncertain about this. I would feel bad about it, but I'd probably daykill the newer players and people I haven't played much with before because I don't know how they play and would find it harder to read them. This would likely end up being Lenglon or blackmagechill- I don't recall playing with them before.

Fairly standard answer.

Cheeetar

ToonyMan

Inspect Jail with %chance kill. use?

Only in the circumstances I would be using the jail as a roleblock- I wouldn't use it in cases I might otherwise use a jail (such as to protect people I thought were valuable to town).

Uuuum... OMGUS much?

Cheeetar:  Since Jim isn't with us, do you feel like you're going to get boned by bullshit mechanics?

I'm missing what you're referring to- the first statement doesn't lead into the question very well to me. Do I think I'm going to get boned by bullshit mechanics: Not this time I don't think. Unless it's somebody else's bullshit mechanics.

I find it strange that you are confident that you wont be affected by "cow poop" mechanics.

Unvote ToonyMan.
Flabort- somebody actioned you. How do you know, and what do you know of the intended/actual effect of the action?

Cheeetar:

Cheeetar:  Since Jim isn't with us, do you feel like you're going to get boned by bullshit mechanics?

I'm missing what you're referring to- the first statement doesn't lead into the question very well to me. Do I think I'm going to get boned by bullshit mechanics: Not this time I don't think. Unless it's somebody else's bullshit mechanics.

As I recall (I could be wrong; my memory is failing in my old age), Jim would complain about bullshit mechanics and getting screwed by them.  He's not here, therefore I decided to arbitrarily question you about it.
So what do you figure your odds of getting screwed by bullshit mechanics are?

Low.

Tiruin: Why're you out to kill us all with your sneaky plane-destroying ways?

Dorsidwarf, why is this the question you chose to add pressure to with a vote?

Everyone else If you had to daykill someone right now, who would you kill?

Oh, whoops- didn't notice this question. I'm actually fairly uncertain about this. I would feel bad about it, but I'd probably daykill the newer players and people I haven't played much with before because I don't know how they play and would find it harder to read them. This would likely end up being Lenglon or blackmagechill- I don't recall playing with them before.

So far there's lots of variety to this question. Interesting answer.
What do you think of the players you've played with before?

In this game specifically? They're cool dudes/ttes, by and large. In general? I've played with too many different people to try to quantify.

Still continuing role fishing. And you remain confident in your cow poop mechanic avoidance.

Why do you assume that they can only use it once per day phase?

Also- whoever stole it, you should own up to it.

Okay, you are like seriously role-fishing now.

Origamiscienceguy, what motivated the fake post restriction?

Blackmagechill, you didn't even wait for me to respond to your vote before switching to somebody else. Put a little conviction in.

They should own up to stealing a random vote because if they use it it's gonna be visible anyway. If they're not going to use it, then it's just taking somebody else's vote away- more likely to be useful to scum than town if targeted at a random person.
Basically (probably) only scum would have reason to be secretive about stealing votes on the first day.

autistic

Not cool, dude. Tone it down.

I disagree on your vote-stealing stance. If the power is to just delete that person's vote, then the only person who really has a reason to use it day 1 is scum... who isn't going to own up. I find it more likely that it is a vote steal which is useful to a town member because it has a chance of taking a scum vote away while never leaving the town down a vote. And if scum has it, they wont own up anyways. Seriously role fishy.

Cheeetar:You're at least putting in an effort, and I'm still thinking in terms of pressure votes. OSG's previous posts have contributed literally zero to the conversation, whereas you've had suspicions and questions the whole time. And are you sure it'll show up as them having two votes? Not playing is the biggest tell there is.

The italicised statement seems like a post restriction in how ominous and out of place it is. I don't think it will show until people use it- but somebody who stole it to not use it are most likely scum. Ergo, town should claim the steal now rather than later when they use it.

What I mentioned earlier. Continuing your role fishing. And that's where you end.

Summary: EXTREMELY role-fishy the entire game with questions and demands that would seem to help serial killers the most. Although they certainly would help scum too. I think you are worth voting for, but I'll wait until I have read everybody else.

Deus Asmoth

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

flabort, Shakerag probably. He seems to have a liking for disruptive roles and it'd at least reveal whether he can be killed this time.

Leng, yes. It provides information either way and I investigate people I think are scummy anyway. Are you able to speak at all?

Standard question and answer

Shakerag‚ who would be your choice for a kill?

Lenglon, only if I was using it as a roleblock, I think. The random number gods seem to like screwing me over.

OSG, how'd you wind up on that plane?

More standard questions. It would also be nice to have the questions in quotes, not that I've ever done that.

Dorsi, I think that the overall scum type is likely to be whatever Webadict felt like it being. I think it's a reasonable bet that it's not a bunch of SKs and no mafia this time, but beyond that I imagine it depends on what people chose as their roles.

More standard answers.

OSG, what did you do before the plane ride, then?

flabort, that's the second time you've done your vote-unvote thing. Is there any reason behind it?

more standard questions

flabort, I didn't do anything to your vote.

BMC, if you're so suspicious of OSG for his lack of play, why OMGUS Shakerag instead of leaving your vote where it was?

Lenglon, does your speech impediment actually prevent you from doing anything?

More standard answers and questions but this time with more !!FUN!!

flabort, Not yet, no.

Persus, Would you agree that it's fairly likely that there would be scum in a wagon that makes up ~a third of the players, though?

More standard questions and answers... are you seeing a pattern yet?

NQT, how is tipping off the scum more detrimental to your case than not giving the town the opportunity to examine your points? For that matter, how is Persus meant to address your points if you never present them in the first place?

Persus, what are your thoughts on the secret doctrine?

I suppose you are slightly scumhumting now, but not really going into much depth.

You're not a jester by any chance, are you?

More reasonable questions.

NQT, you're presenting a false dichotomy here. There's no reason to choose between you or Persus when there are fourteen other valid targets, especially when you've given no reason to get invested in it besides your saying so.

Jack, I'm entertaining the notion. He's being needlessly attention grabbing and divisive. Another thought I had was that they're both scum, but that seemed a bit too obvious.

Finally some theories and something more than questions and answers, and you bring up some good points.
Dorsidwarf
flabort

NQT: I didn't actually realise that was a rap till the last line. On topic though, my general rule is that whenever someone offers me an ultimatum between themselves and someone else, I pick someone else. So if you really want me to pick between yourself and Persus, I'd vote for you. I won't be doing that at the moment though because I'm still concerned that it's all part of your cunning plan.


flabort, lying and OMGUSing.

You seem to be very chill with all that NQT had been doing. A bit strange considering the circumstances. I almost want to believe that you two are on a team, but that may be a bit far-fetched.

Summary: Has posted quite a bit, but not much with any real content. Mostly just standard questions and answers. Mainly null read, but there is a chance you could be active-lurking.

IronyOwl
Jack A T
Lenglon
notquitethere
Persus13
Shakerag
Teneb
TheDarkStar
Tiruin
ToonyMan
This could be you!

[flabort]

You left me out of your list.