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Author Topic: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra  (Read 10543 times)

varsovie

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2015, 05:24:50 pm »



It's a little unfortunate that some challenges go anywhere from impossible to easy depending on the RNG, because ingredients.

Yeah I feel "reroll starts" gonna be a big thing for the last challenges, at least to get an easy and profitable starting drug (no side effects) and an easy path to the objective. I found out it's not completely random, e.g. it won't make you sell tons of pain medication, but hide the ingredient behind "desert location" at easier levels, there must be some kind of requirements from the senarios to follow.
I've only beaten the first 4 columns of challenge (without even noticing the parcel buy bug, I though 30+k to expand was normal at medium  :P ), and the only one that I finished closer than 75% of the "master" deadline was because the research (started ASAP) in order to get the good machine and unlock the drug finished when there was only 9 months left. I had to prepare sub-optimal lines and convert 'em all while paused to allow me a good safety margin. (btw discovered centrifuge takes 3 turns... had to double some lines)

One easy method for earlier challenges (at least) is to invest heavily in explorers (4-6) and scientists (4-6) to unlock "useful" things, and buy a lot of parcels to have cheap-simple drug lines (take loans in necessary)
A little evaporator/dissolver ---> pill maker x2 time 10 will feed you enough to sustain your heavy crew and it's easy to convert to other cheap drugs in the short time.

I think what I hate the more about the game is lack of INFORMATION. Can't see what process my final drug took (eg ingredient ---> condenser ---> condenser ---> UV ---> pill maker ---> out) which would be super useful when replicating a line or part of a line in a totally different floor constraint. And even in the same constraints, no copy-pasta?

There's no way to know to concentration values of a tier 2 or more drug before making it, that I can understand the "discovery" aspect, on the other hand the information isn't remembered once you make the molecule. The only ways I've found was to either make a little fake production line, so it would be saved under my corporates drugs, or let the sample sit on a lone belt.

The fact you have to actually WAIT for the drug to be processed to know what would be the result at X point of your production line is also really bad IMHO. Yes you can calculate it in your head or take not if you wanna be efficient (aka not wasting $) but it's tedious, and nil impossible for the 1st batch going through the mixer/centrifuge.

The other big negative point is the lack of HOTKEYS. Seriously I can't press space to pause? I have to click the menu twice to change from a dissolver to  a condenser? They recently added Q and E to rotate stuff (surely after complains from laptop users :P ), so I hope they hotkey everything soon and that we'll be able to reconfigure it.

Belts are a pain to make work properly, and sometime medication stop moving in the good direction because there's a T junction leading nowhere, and there's a weird sequencer bug that makes the throughput of 2 parallel pill maker 24/month instead of 30/month, which is worse with 3turn machines, but overall very few bugs, just UI concerns and maybe balance issues. I read they will add belt crossing soon, so it should be easier to use a mixer with a good throughput.
 
There's also a small bug where after an hour or so playing I have to click twice or more instead of once to select things, even the menus. It makes moving stuff near impossible. :P But I play on Linux via wine, so it might be only a wine bug.

Overall I'm hooked, but not as much as I was with spacechem, but will finish all scenarios before jumping on TIS-100.
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varsovie

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2015, 06:16:28 pm »

You're making it too complicated.  If you split the line, you make the same profit-per-pill, but you make MORE profit-per-day.  Individual price is the same, but you push out more product.

Either way, what's a good setup to run two mixers?  I find the conveyor belts to be... unusually directional and not cooperate very well.
It's possible, but you have to duplicate ALL the system before them (so use twice the amount of entry wall outlet).
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Aklyon

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2015, 06:33:00 pm »

You're making it too complicated.  If you split the line, you make the same profit-per-pill, but you make MORE profit-per-day.  Individual price is the same, but you push out more product.

Either way, what's a good setup to run two mixers?  I find the conveyor belts to be... unusually directional and not cooperate very well.
You can hold ctrl for manual belt directional control, according tothe dev's playthrough in his video blog series.
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Crystalline (SG)
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andrewas

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2015, 03:42:37 am »

Belts are a pain to make work properly, and sometime medication stop moving in the good direction because there's a T junction leading nowhere, and there's a weird sequencer bug that makes the throughput of 2 parallel pill maker 24/month instead of 30/month, which is worse with 3turn machines, but overall very few bugs, just UI concerns and maybe balance issues. I read they will add belt crossing soon, so it should be easier to use a mixer with a good throughput.

Give the machines room to unload rather than put a T directly after them, and you should get your 30/month throughput.

But, yeah, belts in general suck. I'd prefer if they worked like Factorio belts and pulled items through them, rather than items having to be pushed by subsequent outputs. And the layout tools need work. Still, its Alpha.
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ventuswings

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2015, 08:25:23 am »

I watched some videos and it seems like means of direct economic interaction between companies are not present. Am I right, and if so, does the developer intend to include them or be content with companies affecting saturation only and focus the game more on production & puzzle side?
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Girlinhat

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2015, 04:30:27 pm »

I watched some videos and it seems like means of direct economic interaction between companies are not present. Am I right, and if so, does the developer intend to include them or be content with companies affecting saturation only and focus the game more on production & puzzle side?
Currently, there's a certain number of sick people, thus a certain number of drug purchasers, and the quality of your drug compares against the drugs of other companies to determine what consumers are buying, so you can compete with others by making your drug better and then no one buys their lower quality goods and they lose profit.

That's the only real interaction between companies right now.

varsovie

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2015, 06:51:04 pm »

I watched some videos and it seems like means of direct economic interaction between companies are not present. Am I right, and if so, does the developer intend to include them or be content with companies affecting saturation only and focus the game more on production & puzzle side?
Currently, there's a certain number of sick people, thus a certain number of drug purchasers, and the quality of your drug compares against the drugs of other companies to determine what consumers are buying, so you can compete with others by making your drug better and then no one buys their lower quality goods and they lose profit.

That's the only real interaction between companies right now.

In fact they still buy their (or yours) drugs, I feel the quality is only intrinsic to the proprieties of your drug. That's why there's no point in analyzing simple meds since you can just tweak the concentration and monitor the drug rating. And quality rating is a direct corollary to the drug value/price. I've never seen "you only sold 26 of your 30 meds".

Multiple companies in the same sector does make it less profitable though, that's the main interaction. They buy more drugs, pulling prices up, and might bring the cure demand lower.
All in all I have 3 competitors in the scenarios I'm at right now and they're mostly insignificant, selling in non-profitable cures (aka those I don't care) or being a drop in a bucket (like they've got less than 25% share in buy/cure of all sectors of my interest).

I'm not sure if their growth is pre-set (I think since they all get cures around the same time) or can be influenced by your actions, if so it's cool since I often over-expand the first easy cures and run the profits to the ground. :P
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Tobel

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2015, 11:14:17 am »

So I am having a hell of a time understanding the mixer. I have a ingredient with the catalyst I need. I have the ingredient that eventually will be combined with the catalyst to move to tier 3. The problem is that when I get to the mixer, either the catalyst agent gets overridden, or I swap the base and the combination ingredient gets wiped out with everything that the catalyst ingredient has. I've tried changing the "active" status and have removed as many useless side effects as possible. What gives?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That combo just wipes out the bottom ingredient. Swapping base causes the catalyst to be removed

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit:

Looks like I didn't look far enough ahead. The Shaker should fix this.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 11:17:06 am by Tobel »
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varsovie

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2015, 06:08:48 pm »

So I am having a hell of a time understanding the mixer. I have a ingredient with the catalyst I need. I have the ingredient that eventually will be combined with the catalyst to move to tier 3. The problem is that when I get to the mixer, either the catalyst agent gets overridden, or I swap the base and the combination ingredient gets wiped out with everything that the catalyst ingredient has. I've tried changing the "active" status and have removed as many useless side effects as possible. What gives?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That combo just wipes out the bottom ingredient. Swapping base causes the catalyst to be removed

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit:

Looks like I didn't look far enough ahead. The Shaker should fix this.

Indeed, there's 4 slots for effects, the shaker take the ones of the base and give them to the other medication IN THE SAME SPOT, so top to top, 2nd on 2nd... If the base haS AN EMPTY SPOT THEN NOTHING HAPPENS. yOU CAN USE THE MIXER TO MOVE THE  EFFECTS AROUND THE SLOTS.

As for the concentration, the new ingredient that the one from the base.

*SRY FOR THE CAPS, TOO LAZY TO FIX IT
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Aklyon

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2015, 06:17:27 pm »

You mixed up the two machines.
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Crystalline (SG)
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Gabeux

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2015, 07:52:02 pm »

A compact Factorio meets compact Sim Theme Hospital?
PTW.  8)
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Neyvn

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2015, 01:46:38 am »

Hehe... Migraine Tablets that have a side effect of causing headaches... Why does that sound EVIL...
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n9103

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2015, 08:55:54 am »

It's not really. I don't know anyone that wouldn't trade a migraine for a headache in a second.
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lordcooper

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2015, 03:10:59 pm »


Individual price is the same, but you push out more product.

But the drug being more available can decrease it's value.

It's possible, but you have to duplicate ALL the system before them (so use twice the amount of entry wall outlet).

Not quite.  You only need to duplicate one line (ideally the cheapest) so you'd use 3 ins and one out instead of 2 ins and one out.

All in all I have 3 competitors in the scenarios I'm at right now and they're mostly insignificant

This has been my experience most of the time too.  There was one instance where competitor action made a 3x upgraded drug of mine (it was shit but uncontested) go from a sizeable profit to a loss.

Hehe... Migraine Tablets that have a side effect of causing headaches... Why does that sound EVIL...

My favourite was a pill to lower blood pressure that raised blood pressure.
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varsovie

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Re: Big Pharma-Spacechem for Viagra
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2015, 06:56:38 pm »

My favourite was a pill to lower blood pressure that raised blood pressure.

Viagra?
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