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[Putnam]

Yes, the Thalmor totally crushed the empire which had Skyrim in it, so of course an independent Skyrim could beat the Thalmor by themselves!

I'm so annoyed by the Nords in this game, but in a good way. It's very clearly intentional, how far the Nords are from their traditional ways. The Nords are fighting a civil war over their tradition of worshiping a Breton who claimed he was an Imperial, all of their traditions are more Imperial than Nord, they worship the Imperial pantheon rather than the Nordic pantheon, they hate mages because of recent events not knowing that the nordic tradition is steeped deeply in respect and veneration of mages (which is brought up in game by Tsun)... and they war the Imperials for their right to uphold Imperial tradition. Beautiful.

[Jimmy]

Hey, nobody ever said traditions made sense. Pretty much the opposite in most cases, actually.

The important thing is that the Nords feel like they got a win. Boom, they get their good feels, they get to hold a moot to elect their next High King which is totally not going to be rigged at all, and they continue to be racist bastards that persecute minorities like Reachmen. Ulfric might be a bastard, a scheming megalomaniac and a ruthless despot, but in my book all that does is prove he's the perfect candidate for the big chair. The world doesn't need kind, just rulers right now. It needs rulers who can motivate an entire population of people to rise up and give their lives fighting another war. Ulfric's got that in spades, and you just know that the Empire is itching to take the fight back to the Aldmeri Dominion. Ulfric can give the Empire an army of battle-hardened veteran Stormcloaks to do just that. You know he's got the brains to figure out the Thalmor are the real threat, and he's been perfectly clear on his opposition to their position in power over the Empire.

[Putnam]

but he's a literal thalmor sleeper agent

[Neonivek]

Honestly, I in this case, maybe having the dragons show up later in the main quest instead of out of the gate would've worked if you changed around the opening. While there's still rumors of dragons, there's no real 'oh shit' moments yet because the world eating dragon god has yet to show up.

There you go again assuming that is the main or primary quest because we are a Dragonborn.

When the REAL main quest is uniting the entire land under the same banner

Which is why I kind of say that the game has no main quest. One could argue it has two, but to determine that you have to determine how important they are to the plot, of which they aren't at all (One quest is more of an excuse plot for the dragon born stuff)

[Jimmy]

If you don't go to Bleak Falls Barrow the dragons never show up again. Just tell Farengar to go stuff himself and you save the world of the dragon menace!

In respect to Ulfric's dossier, it quite clearly shows the Thalmor don't want one side to win in order to keep bleeding both sides dry fighting in a civil war. The Thalmor lose no matter which side wins, but I think Ulfric's a far better option for mankind than Elisif on the High King's throne. Love him or hate him, Ulfric has the support of the people, and he can rally them to war.

[Chiefwaffles]

I mean, not to get engaged in discussing the politics of Skyrim in a Fallout 4 thread, but it's not like Skyrim actually tells/shows Ulfric having immense popular support. Imperials have at least half of the cities under their control (and without actual occupation) and think of it this way:

Empire + Skyrim > Empire - Skyrim

Sure, you could say that independent Skyrim would actually fight against the Thalmor, but would that really be successful? They can't beat the Imperials, so why would they be able to do any kind of damage to the people who have the Imperials under their collective boots? A unified Empire would be stronger and more able to act and think for itself as well as to actually form some kind of eventual resistance.

[NullForceOmega]

Jimmy, if the entire Empire, including resources from the provinces of Morrowind (Vvardenfel devastated by impact and eruption, mainland reeling from Argonian invasion), Hammerfell (beat back the Dominion alone), Blackmarsh (strongest it's ever been), Elsweyr (Skooma cats be cray-cray), and Skyrim (functioning at full bore and united), can't take the Aldemri Dominion, then how in the name of hell is Ulfric's army, which has failed to actually defeat the Imperials at all until the Dragonborn gets involved going to take them on?  He's shooting himself in the foot with his racist attitude, shooting himself in the foot by dividing Skyrim, and it all doesn't matter because the Thalmor will literally just remove him if he becomes a problem for them.

Only the Empire stands a chance against the Dominion, Ulfric is just a puppet and cannot ever be anything more.  Not to mention that even when he does do things his way, it just turns into a merciless bloodbath (The Reach anyone?)

Edit: Forgot Orsinium in there, but from what I understand they were pretty much a non-factor in the war.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, better take the Skyrim talk over to the Skyrim thread.

Though technically there is a piece of Nirn in Fallout, at least if the mysterious plants growing on the Prydwen are any indication.

[wierd]

It took the numidium to securely win the unified empire the first time. The southern provinces and many neutral royal houses were not fully aligned with the Septim dynasties, (the Aldmer being openly hostile to human rule, and very very angry about the Alyssian Order and the Marukhati Selectives giving their deities literal schizophrenia) so Tiber Septim, having beaten down the Tribunal, and being gifted the Numidium from them in exchange for the armistice permitting them semi-autonomy, used said giant stompy robot to boot stomp the shit out of everyone and everything that stood in his way.

It being a mythic construct INTENDED to change the way the mundus works (The dwemer intended to use it to remake the world the way THEY wanted, but failed miserably, destroying their entire species except one), its invocation is MUCH MUCH MORE than just a giant battle mecha stomping on everyone. It also literally re-writes history, and restructures reality when it is used. THAT is how Tiber Septim became the mantled persona of the missing Shor/Lorkhan/Seth/Shezzar/other divine slot.

The robot is presumed destroyed, but is really at the bottom of Illiac Bay, if I am reading the various outcomes of Daggerfall right.  An army of imperial aligned wizards could theoretically work to recover and restore the construct, and BOOM-- It's ON like Donkey Kong all over again.

The Numidium is one of the 8 "Tower copies" created in mythic representation of the act of the mundus' creation, which is what gives them their myth-altering powers. It is also why the Aldmeri Dominion is INSISTENT on controlling the imperial city-- White-Gold is ANOTHER of these tower-copies, as is High Hrothgar, the Crystal Tower in their own dominion, The walking tree in Valenwood, etc.  If you note, the aldmeri dominion is VERY aggressive in trying to gain control of these places.  If they can control them all, they can ensure that what the Marukhati did never happens again, and they are poised to complete their plans to reforge the world as they see fit.

(For further reading, see the 36 lessons of vivec, the books on the alessian order, and commentary from Micheal Kirkbride; one of the lead authors of the lore of this universe.)

When Martin Septim died, and the mythic powers associated with the septim bloodline failed as a consequence, ONLY THEN were the altmer in the south able to begin their bullshit. Which they did, IMMEDIATELY.

But that's enough derail in the FO4 thread.

[Putnam]

White Gold's stone was destroyed at the end of the 3rd Era when Martin used it to become a dragon. Crystal-Like-Law was likely destroyed surreptitiously by the Thalmor. Snow Throat is "sundered, kingless, bleeding", and may already be lost. Adamantine Tower seems to be the only one left standing, its stone being Convention, which has been reaffirmed by Convention 2.0, the Enantiomorph that made Talos-the-Divine. The results of a loss of Talos are unknown on Adamantine; I don't think it'd do shit, but whatever.

Nu-Mantia Intercept is the primary tower stuff. I don't think the 36 lessons had tower stuff yet. Nu-Mantia is from around Oblivion's release. The novels have a bit about the towers, the Book of the Dragonborn mentions them, and Elder Scrolls Online is based entirely around tower lore.

[Krevsin]

SO how about them fallouts, huh? 

[Egan_BW]

That's the one with them Brotherhood of Steel, right? I love those guys!

[BlackFlyme]

Nirnroot in Prydwen. Fallout Scrolls confirmed.

[Jimmy]

Then either Nirn lost a moon when it became Earth, or Earth gained a moon when it became Nirn.

[Krevsin]

Nirnroot in Prydwen. Fallout Scrolls confirmed.

Does than mean melee combat will be more viable in future titles?