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[nenjin]

I keep hearing about how awesome Piper is. However I've yet to use a companion for longer than the game makes me. (Not even Dog Meat.) On a second playthrough I plan to do things very differently, and I'd like better Companion tools when they can be modded in. So for now I'm doing the whole game lone wolf style, no power armor. (Except under the rare instances where power armor is where I am.)

The game is a whole different experience when you're trying to snipe Legendary Super Mutants and are just a couple moments away from death if they ever actually locate you.

[Glloyd]

It honestly baffles me how someone could play twenty hours, not even get to the second quest in the main story, and then get bored and quit.

Because running around randomly and doing random shit is much more enjoyable than enduring Bethplot?

In morrowing i accidentially sold the letter that introduces the main plot and i didn't feel like i had missed anything when i stopped playing.
In Oblivin I finished the main quest, thought it sucked and then modded the game into... Oblivion and had fun running around doing random stuff.
In fallout 3 I started the game, Disliked everything and quit.
In Skyrim I only did whatever main quest i needed to unlock features.

Yeah, i put something like 100 hours into Oblivion before I picked up the main quest. I played it up until gates started appearing then went and did my own thing. Same with FO3. For NV, I actually played the story first because it was actually interesting to me, and then I went exploring and did all the DLC. I never finished Skyrim either. I got all the fun I could have out of exploring, played halfway through the story and stopped because it got boring. Beth can't write for shit, and it can't keep me captivated. The best part about those games is exploring, and once I'm done that, there's not much left to keep my interest until DLC with new areas comes out, or mods with new areas.

It's why I think Morrowind still has the superior introduction despite all the games since it. You get your Bethesda style intro and then the game just drops you in a foreign land with few to no preconceptions to motivate you. It's all discovery. No tugging at the heart strings plot. No grand plots of world-shattering importance that you inexplicably are always in at the ground floor of. I can barely recall most of the Morrowind plots at this point because they're all pretty distinct in their own way.

Exactly. Morrowind was the last Beth game that I really enjoyed the set up of. I only finished FO3 because my friend told me Broken Steel was fun, which it kinda was.

[Putnam]

Shivering Isles was completely amazing. Knights of the Nine was pretty good, too, definitely way deeper than it first appears (I.E read the content given to you in-game about the divine crusader you're emulating and you'll find out he was a batshit insane killbot from the future).

[Glloyd]

Shivering Isles was completely amazing. Knights of the Nine was pretty good, too, definitely way deeper than it first appears (I.E read the content given to you in-game about the divine crusader you're emulating and you'll find out he was a batshit insane killbot from the future).

For sure, I enjoyed Shivering Isles more than the main questline.

[KingofstarrySkies]

Shivering Isles was completely amazing. Knights of the Nine was pretty good, too, definitely way deeper than it first appears (I.E read the content given to you in-game about the divine crusader you're emulating and you'll find out he was a batshit insane killbot from the future).

Shivering Isles was completely amazing. Knights of the Nine was pretty good, too, definitely way deeper than it first appears (I.E read the content given to you in-game about the divine crusader you're emulating and you'll find out he was a batshit insane killbot from the future).

For sure, I enjoyed Shivering Isles more than the main questline.

Because Shivering Isles didn't feel like a bog-standard medieval-fantasy setting, it felt like a mad-god's domain. Skyrim at least had some direction in its art-It was nordic and stuck with that theme. Of course, Skyrim traded a lot of content I felt for that setting; I really like Oblivion.

I never did get through Knights Of The Nine. What's this about killbots?

[Teneb]

Shivering Isles was completely amazing. Knights of the Nine was pretty good, too, definitely way deeper than it first appears (I.E read the content given to you in-game about the divine crusader you're emulating and you'll find out he was a batshit insane killbot from the future).

Shivering Isles was completely amazing. Knights of the Nine was pretty good, too, definitely way deeper than it first appears (I.E read the content given to you in-game about the divine crusader you're emulating and you'll find out he was a batshit insane killbot from the future).

For sure, I enjoyed Shivering Isles more than the main questline.

Because Shivering Isles didn't feel like a bog-standard medieval-fantasy setting, it felt like a mad-god's domain. Skyrim at least had some direction in its art-It was nordic and stuck with that theme. Of course, Skyrim traded a lot of content I felt for that setting; I really like Oblivion.

I never did get through Knights Of The Nine. What's this about killbots?

Pelinal Whitestrake (the Divine Crusader guy the entire plot of the DLC revolves around) was a Terminator, who was also Lorkhan because, from the future sent to the past to team up with a slave queen (who would later go one to perform great feats like possessing a hill (postmortem) and being impregnated by some nord warlord, in this order) and her winged minotaur husband (who is said killbot's nephew) to perform genocide on elves. Yes, really.

[Putnam]

Yeah, he would rant about Reman Cyrodiil, who wouldn't be born for QUITE a few years, among other things.

[Teneb]

Yeah, he would rant about Reman Cyrodiil, who wouldn't be born for QUITE a few years, among other things.

I should've probably mentioned that Reman is the lovechild of Hrol (the hill-fucking nord) and Sancre Tor (the hill, possessed by the aforementioned slave queen (Alessia)).

Reman himself... is another story. One we should take to the TES thread.

[KingofstarrySkies]

...I gotta brush up on TES lore.

[Lich180]

Sometimes Bethesda has really good writing, but that's usually the exception to the rule. Elder Scrolls lore is pretty fun to read.

[Flying Dice]

Yoink, trust me. Finish the quest. I guarantee you'll like how it turns out, especially if you make the decision I think you will.

Just, uh. Beware of the buggy one-off mechanic.

Aw, man. You mean I can trade one incredibly irritating, poorly written faction for another incredibly irritating, poorly written faction?
Where's my Option C: Kill everyone in the room apart from myself and maybe my companion?
When did the whole 'inexplicably unkillable NPC weaklings' nonsense become a thing, anyway? Just about every Beth game seems to have the same issue.

This game's pretty shithouse without mods. I say again, I kinda regret ever defending Bethesda.
Well, Fallout 3 was actually quite good, in my opinion. But this thing is terrible, it has all the same problems and adds a whole bunch more.
Punching robots is fun, and the character creator is good, but everything past that has been pretty rubbish.

Meant that in reference to your earlier complaints about being railroaded into helping the quest-giver. As far as I'm concerned the ending was getting to screw her over and collect a unique gun from the person-shaped dispenser.

[scriver]

AND HROL DID LOVE UNTO A HILLOCK

[Glloyd]

When did the whole 'inexplicably unkillable NPC weaklings' nonsense become a thing, anyway? Just about every Beth game seems to have the same issue.

Yeah, I feel like it's way worse in this game though. You can't kill caravan guards, you can't kill 90% of the people in Diamond City. It's really strange. There's even a lot of unnamed NPCs you can't kill.

[Grim Portent]

When did the whole 'inexplicably unkillable NPC weaklings' nonsense become a thing, anyway? Just about every Beth game seems to have the same issue.

Yeah, I feel like it's way worse in this game though. You can't kill caravan guards, you can't kill 90% of the people in Diamond City. It's really strange. There's even a lot of unnamed NPCs you can't kill.

They first did it in Oblivion, presumably as a way to prevent quests breaking as much as they did in Morrowind. The experience in that can kind of be summed up as 'You killed a random guy in a town? Three quests have broken! Hahahahaha!' It was made worse by the fact that sometimes wandering NPCs would get killed by animals and monsters in the wilderness. So in Oblivion they added the essential tag that made some people immortal to avoid quests being failed before they were started.

They did the same in FO3, but instead what wound up annoying people was that caravan traders would get killed by deathclaws, raiders and other stupid stuff as they meandered slowly between settlements.

Bit by bit as people have complained about traders, shopkeepers, quest important NPCs and a dozen other things dying to random shit Bethesda have made more and more NPCs essential so they don't get killed before their time. The problem isn't so much that caravans can't get killed by random wildlife, but more that they haven't applied the essential tag in such a fashion that we can still killed people if we want to (except settlers.)

[Reudh]

A brief idea I had:

Rather than making them invulnerable to death, or vulnerable - if a quest-important NPC is injured or killed by something, they could be forced to their home and have bedrest or something. "Greetings, Playercharacter. I got in a punch-up with <Stereotypical brawny nord>/attacked by X bandit gang/mauled by wolves/etc. I'm afraid I can't join you for X/Y/Z portion of this job, but maybe if you have some kind of restoration magic/skill with alchemy you could get me up and going?"

Some quests would have to overlook that, but I think it could be a kinda cool mechanic. They'd also heal over time, though - so a resource poor player wouldn't be locked out of a quest because they didn't have a necessary skill.