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Author Topic: Fallout 4: It Just Works  (Read 840190 times)

Krevsin

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5085 on: December 26, 2015, 06:04:47 am »

Most of the quest in general are of the "Go There, Kill Everything" variety, which makes them a whole heckuva lot harder to distinguish from one another.
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scriver

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5086 on: December 26, 2015, 06:36:52 am »

Yeah, there's few sidequests or main quests that isn't just "go there kill everything plot exposition kill 'boss'/antagonist" too, so if that makes the homestead quests not count, shouldn't it make all of the rest of the sidequests not count too?
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Flying Dice

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5087 on: December 26, 2015, 07:02:02 am »

'Cause they sometimes have just a titch more going on than "there's this asshole that needs killing". The quest where you initially kill the raiders in that foundry is about the most complex I remember the homestead quests getting.
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scriver

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5088 on: December 26, 2015, 07:18:11 am »

Yeah, but that quest also has more complexity than 90% of the non-homestead side quests.
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Lossmar

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5089 on: December 26, 2015, 08:12:21 am »

Christ what a travesty of a game ....

- almost every NPC, no matter how minor, is immortal
- dialogue is neutered beyond belief and suffers frome "Bioware syndrome" ( my chosen option is often drastically different than what is actually spoken by my character )
- preset character background, sexual orientation, martial status etc
- complete failure at storytelling ( how the fuck im suppose to get attached to my husband/wife and child if i spend less than 5 minutes with them before shit hits the fan ?? Does the concept of "Developing characters" mean anything to you Howard ?? )
- Bethesda is still completely shit at worldbuilding ( edible food after 200 years, working weapons, no signs of rebuilding etc )
- just like every other Bethesda game world feels completely empty, featureless and unresponsive to my actions
- it takes 15 minutes to get Power Armour ( which my housewife is somehow familliar to the point she can operate, fix and even modify it ) and minigun
- everything is so fricking SHALLOW - Dogmeat trusts you without even slightest work to earn his trust, you can be a Minuteman general without actually doing any quests etc.
- and many many other shitty "features"

Only thing that i liked was the settlement building ( makes me in the mood for some Fallout/post apo mod for either DF or Rimworld ) and weapon cutomization ( especially NAMING THEM ).
I also liked the removal of skills because its a cardinal sin of an action-rpg-fps hybrid to trump player skill because of character skill.

If i would had to give a numerical score it would be a very forced 5/10.
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dv

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5090 on: December 26, 2015, 10:35:07 am »

- everything is so fricking SHALLOW - Dogmeat trusts you without even slightest work to earn his trust, you can be a Minuteman general without actually doing any quests etc.
Funny in New Vegas Veronica doesn't just trust and join you, she even tells you she's BoS immediately.

If FO4 is shallow then NV must be the Mariana trench.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5091 on: December 26, 2015, 10:51:33 am »

- everything is so fricking SHALLOW - Dogmeat trusts you without even slightest work to earn his trust, you can be a Minuteman general without actually doing any quests etc.
Funny in New Vegas Veronica doesn't just trust and join you, she even tells you she's BoS immediately.

If FO4 is shallow then NV must be the Mariana trench.

As far as I recall, Veronica only tells you she's BoS if you pass some skill checks.
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Rolan7

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5092 on: December 26, 2015, 11:03:19 am »

- everything is so fricking SHALLOW - Dogmeat trusts you without even slightest work to earn his trust, you can be a Minuteman general without actually doing any quests etc.
Funny in New Vegas Veronica doesn't just trust and join you, she even tells you she's BoS immediately.

If FO4 is shallow then NV must be the Mariana trench.
Well no, she chats and then asks your opinion of the BoS.  If you reply negatively, she breaks contact and will never join you.  She only reveals her allegiance if you seem friendly to them.  (Or maybe if you make a skill check yeah, I don't remember)

And Cassidy tells you to fuck off, until you actually have business which justifies traveling together.  I don't know much about the other companion options, but these two were pretty slow to join.  Raul didn't seem easy either.  I didn't even find him, and his location is... inhospitable.

In Fallout 4 they generally have excuses to throw in with you (except Dogmeat) but they're flimsy, and very little effort is required.  Preston, Piper, and Valentine swear allegiance pretty much on sight as part of the railroaded main plot.  That merc in Goodneighbor will be yours forever for 100, 200 caps?  Could probably make a profit by stripping his equipment immediately.  Strong is the only one I met yet who wasn't effortless to get to, really.  And Danse, sorta, though he's really just a signing bonus for joining the BoS.
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Persus13

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5093 on: December 26, 2015, 11:50:46 am »

New Vegas companions all need a bit of work or skill to get.

Having seen some of Fallout 4, companions seem to be a much more necessary part of the game, as you could play through New Vegas without recruiting any companions, while in Fallout 4, you get Codsworth and Dogmeat almost immediately, so that may explain the difference in difficulty.

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Rolan7

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5094 on: December 26, 2015, 12:02:58 pm »

Christ what a travesty of a game ....

- almost every NPC, no matter how minor, is immortal
- dialogue is neutered beyond belief and suffers frome "Bioware syndrome" ( my chosen option is often drastically different than what is actually spoken by my character )
- preset character background, sexual orientation, martial status etc
Yep, totally, and... yeah.  I lucked out with my high cha and int character having the background of "lawyer", but I was disappointed to find out that that's static.  It's also weird having voice acting.
To be fair though, New Vegas also forced us to have been a courier.  And that history is rather central to the plot (even though the player doesn't know anything about it, which is a cardinal sin of storytelling unless the character has amnesia...grrr).  I guess the main differene is that FO4 forces us the PC to be happily married, whereas we don't know how the Courier felt about their job.  Or their orientation or relationship status.
(Seriously though, it's fucked that the Courier remembers the backstory of Lonesome Road but the player never does.  That creates a *huge* disconnect between player and character, and is so very easily fixed by having the Courier receive amnesia and a change of personality from their traumatic head wound.  Fuck the word-of-god.)

- complete failure at storytelling ( how the fuck im suppose to get attached to my husband/wife and child if i spend less than 5 minutes with them before shit hits the fan ?? Does the concept of "Developing characters" mean anything to you Howard ?? )
Nah I thought the intro scene established everything it needed to, concisely.  I didn't want it to specify more about *my* character.  I spent at least half an hour in it, too, though maybe half of that was crafting my husbando and me.
It worked, too, I did get attached.
- Bethesda is still completely shit at worldbuilding ( edible food after 200 years, working weapons, no signs of rebuilding etc )
The food's sterilized by radiation.  They actually try to address the weapon thing by introducing "pipe" weapons everywhere, though it's not a perfect explanation by any stretch...  But style is more important than realism.  This isn't "what would happen after a nuclear war", it's "what would 50's pulp fiction think would happen".

And there is rebuilding happening everywhere...  The Commonwealth is covered in prosperous settlements, there are three towns, and the bandits/gunners have built fortresses and are re-inventing the feudal system of government.
- just like every other Bethesda game world feels completely empty, featureless and unresponsive to my actions
- it takes 15 minutes to get Power Armour ( which my housewife is somehow familliar to the point she can operate, fix and even modify it ) and minigun
It's really shitty power armor limited by fusion cores.
But lorewise yes, it bothers me that anyone can operate it.  I... guess the husband may have taught the wife how to use it, and they're teaching the settlers "off-camera".  And... the bandits... are orks?
It doesn't make sense, they just wanted to show off their fancy power armor.  So you're right.
- everything is so fricking SHALLOW - Dogmeat trusts you without even slightest work to earn his trust, you can be a Minuteman general without actually doing any quests etc.
- and many many other shitty "features"
I really hate the multi-part armor.  It adds so much hassle, can't be tracked with the "favorites" button, and is not worth the mild novelty of wearing mismatched equipment.  It really highlights the failings of the inventory system, which worked well enough in NV.  Even Skyrim let you tag items as important without *DEDICATING A FREAKING HOTKEY*

Only thing that i liked was the settlement building ( makes me in the mood for some Fallout/post apo mod for either DF or Rimworld ) and weapon cutomization ( especially NAMING THEM ).
I'm glad people like the settlement building, I personally don't care for it.  But I'm glad they added it.
I also liked the removal of skills because its a cardinal sin of an action-rpg-fps hybrid to trump player skill because of character skill.
If we consider Fallout to be the same sort of series as Borderlands, sure.  But I do not.  Fallout 3 was a first-person RPG in 3D.  Character skill trumped player skill in combat, as it did in Fallout 1/2.  Because the challenge wasn't supposed to be "aim well, hug cover" like an FPS.  It was to design an effective character then use their SPECIAL abilities to complete quests.  The game was easy to complete without firing outside of VATS, *if* you leveled your character well.

NV changed that significantly, putting massive emphasis on the player's FPS skills.  For the first time, good character design wasn't enough to win fights, and I think that was an unfortunate change.  But NV did better than 3 in making the non-combat abilities useful, and was a very good game in other ways.  No amount of character design would let you snipe effectively if you (the player) couldn't aim, but sniping was never strictly *necessary*.  So it could still be played by a RPG enthusiast.  I think I could complete New Vegas using only VATS, with some difficulty.

FO4 went the rest of the way.  It's basically one of those shooters with RPG elements to increase grind, now.  The skill system is gone and the perk system, while fancy and fun for a bit, practically doesn't matter.  SPECIAL is a ghost of its former self.  It has redeeming attributes, and fortunately I'm decent at shooters, but they have abandoned what made Fallout 3, uniquely, an immersive first-person RPG.

If i would had to give a numerical score it would be a very forced 5/10.
I'd say 7/10.  I'm enjoying it, it just shouldn't have been Fallout.
And they should lay off with the freaking zombies everywhere, cripes!  Lazy as hell.  (Yes this applies to Fallout 3 as well :P)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 12:05:59 pm by Rolan7 »
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ZebioLizard2

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5095 on: December 26, 2015, 12:28:59 pm »

Quote
Veronica and Arcade Gannon are probably the two easiest to get. Veronica basically begs to join you, if as said above, you like the BoS, and for Gannon, you just ask him to join you (But he won't if you're going Legion).

There's actually quite a few ways of getting arcade to join you (Low int, high rep with followers, confirmed bachelor, Julis quest, speech check of 75). He won't join you automatically without doing some of these things.
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TheBronzePickle

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5096 on: December 26, 2015, 12:48:50 pm »

Honestly, the change towards a more player-friendly combat system was a good thing. Fallout 3 was frustrating as hell if you didn't want to use VATS for ranged combat, since even at 100 in the relevant skill, a few of the weapons were still fairly inaccurate at any reasonable distance (and that's not even mentioning the extremely limited bullet range caps).

New Vegas hit the nail on the head, I think. Character skill was important, but you could do other things to mitigate it like crouching and aiming to brace your weapon, and in plenty of cases you could just avoid fighting altogether. Fallout 4 went a little too far in that combat became the end-all be-all of a lot of major parts of the game.
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dv

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5097 on: December 26, 2015, 12:53:44 pm »

That merc in Goodneighbor will be yours forever for 100, 200 caps?
Also funny, the very first companion in a Fallout game, Ian from Shady Sands, joins you for 100 caps.

I think a lot people are engaging in delusional fantasies of what earlier Fallouts were like.
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scriver

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5098 on: December 26, 2015, 01:46:55 pm »

No, but the expectations on follower... dimension-of-personage has grown since then. Just like our expectations of graphics.
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Lossmar

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Re: Fallout 4: Casuels Killed The Video Game
« Reply #5099 on: December 26, 2015, 02:10:57 pm »

Quote
To be fair though, New Vegas also forced us to have been a courier

But you could be a wrench wench female one, suit and tommy gun Al Capone wannabe guy, gay, les, bi, whatever. You could roleplay any number of backgrounds and the only thing definitive about you was that you were the Courier. And F4 takes this away from you, you will always be either female lawyer or male vet, at least one of you has to be white ( because its kinda hard to have white kid from two black/asian ) people, you have to be hetero etc.

Quote
Nah I thought the intro scene established everything it needed to, concisely.  I didn't want it to specify more about *my* character.  I spent at least half an hour in it, too, though maybe half of that was crafting my husbando and me.
But it was absurd. Someone on NMA already ripped this to shreds.
It would be hundred times better if you had a character creation screen at the beggining, adequately tense and dramatic cutscene and the entire game should begin with main char waking up to see his spouse killed etc.

Quote
it's "what would 50's pulp fiction think would happen".
Stop with this failed argument guys.
Even in "50's pulp fiction fantasy" people have to eat, drink and sleep somewhere. Even in "50's pulp fantasy" people would CLEAN shit like rubble, broken cars, chairs, doors etc from the place where they live. I wouldn't mind if this entire game was simply 25-30 years after war - ok this thing take time. But fucking two centuries and no one bothered to move this car wreck from the middle of the street ?

Quote
It's really shitty power armor limited by fusion cores.
But its a Power Armour nonetheless.
First lightsaber in KOTOR 1 and 2 was also pretty lame and weak but it felt like great achievement to finally get your hands on it 10-20 hours into the game.

Quote
If we consider Fallout to be the same sort of series as Borderlands, sure.  But I do not.  Fallout 3 was a first-person RPG in 3D.  Character skill trumped player skill in combat, as it did in Fallout 1/2.  Because the challenge wasn't supposed to be "aim well, hug cover" like an FPS.  It was to design an effective character then use their SPECIAL abilities to complete quests.  The game was easy to complete without firing outside of VATS, *if* you leveled your character well.

F4 like NV and 3 are FPS with RPG elements. I dont mind my lame ass character missing thing in Fallout 2 because he is the one doing the aiming and shooting. But in 3/4/NV I AM THE ONE AIMING and its fucking infuriating to see bullets fly everywhere but the direction im pointing my gun.
I know i wont see Fallout 5 in isometric perspective with turn based combat. So if i have to choose i will take F4 skilless system over NV/3 anytime.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 02:36:39 pm by Lossmar »
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How to cure gaming industry in couple easy steps :
1. Stop preordering games.
2. Stop hyping games that have nothing to show except pre-rendered hype trailer.
3. Always distrust corporations.
4. Always rage at criminal DLC , microtransactions, pre-order bonuses and other semi legal practices.
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