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[RoguelikeRazuka]

The more gameplay videos are coming out, the more worried I'm getting about the game. I just hope we get some more than merely 'shoot enemies, grab loot' mechanics.

[SOLDIER First]

That's the barest essence of an RPG, my friend. If it's a good enough game, it's all you need.

[Drakale]

I call it a first person looter for a reason 

The gameplay video are a bit disappointing on the graphical side, hope it look better on Pc.

[Flying Dice]

Yeah, it's not like Diablo, Torchlight, and Borderlands weren't successful or fun, and they are essentially nothing but sequences of areas full of increasingly difficult loot-bags which drop differently-shaped colored sticks.

[DoomOnion]

To be fair, it is a very dialogue heavy game with about 111,000 lines recorded. I'm not quite sure where you are getting the 'shoot enemies, grab loot' vibe.
In fact, aren't ALL RPG inherently like that?

I'm just a nobody, but if you'd like my advise, I'd say stop worrying about something that is completely out of your hands, and quietly wait for the game to be released.

Calling me a fanboy would work too, if that helps any.

[Rolan7]

So I actually read this post about the character system:
https://bethesda.net/?utm_source=Twitter.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=092415-Zur&hootPostID=ed42c6b0210067c7e5652eabe8a7f275#en/events/game/fallout-4s-character-system/2015/09/24/31

And now I'm even less worried.  It's still not skills, but it sounds like a fun and intricate system with a lot of replay potential.  I was worried it'd be basically Borderlands' perk system...  And I loved Borderlands, but that would have been lame for a RPG like Fallout.

[scriver]

To be fair, it is a very dialogue heavy game with about 111,000 lines recorded.

Yeah, too bad 70% of those are either "I work for Benethor, at the general goods store" or "I used to be an adventurer like you" recorded in the voice of every single guard actor.

In fact, aren't ALL RPG inherently like that?

No, only the forgetable ones.

[DoomOnion]

Well, in that case might as well change the title of the thread to Fallout 4: The Forgettable RPG, "Go play Morrowind" Edition.

Edit: Without the passive-aggressiveness and with a bit more seriousness, I'd like to add something.

In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so.

This is a bit off topic, but I found it a bit tragic that people judge a game solely based on their idea of what the IP/title should be like, as opposed to what the devs themselves envisioned it. If fallout turned out to be borderland-like loot hoarding game, then fine. So be it. Hey, it might actually be better that way; it might be really fleshed out and well pulled off that it makes borderlands IP look like garbage. What do we actually know for sure?

Well, I know for sure that past all that 'videogame is an art' crap and 'you ruined my franchise I'm boycotting Bethesda' crap, video games, more or less, are directed and produced by a group of people who are getting paid for what they do, in other words, by professionals. They have a solid idea of what they are doing, and they are managed by a project leader who has a clear vision of what his team's project should aim for. Well if they all perfectly know what they are doing, why do we get shitty games, DoomOnion?, you may ask.

Games fail when the said vision is very far from contemporary game designs, or the team lacks budget, gets rushed by the publisher, people quitting their job, technical issues, personal issues, and pretty much any number of things that can hinder a team to show their fullest potential. This can happen to any game. In fact, even as we speak right now, fallout 4 might be ridden with dozens and dozens of unaccounted game-breaking bugs that make the game impossible to play. I think it would be fair to harshly critique any game that fails to deliver its proposed gameplay because of incompetency in this sense, however, harsh critique simply because its direction is not 'up your alley' does no justice. If you don't like it, don't buy it. That's how consumer-producer relationship should work, is it not? Furthermore, there is one more thing you need to take into account.

Creating something in and of itself is taking a huge risk. On top of that, there is an ungodly amount of expenditure for producing it, and considering there's always a chance of failure in creating something, what the game devs have to go through every time they want to make a game is pretty much a leap of faith. Now, let's put this in perspective. You are in charge of developing a game, and your career depends on it. You've been making this for 7 years. You spent astronomical amount of money into making this happen. Some random guy on the internet says it's 'forgettable' or 'worrisome' even when it's not released. I'd say you'll think that those statements do no justice to your project.

To conclude and get back to the topic, I am almost certain that a veteran producer like Todd didn't spend all the budget on recording "I work for Benethor" in 111,000 different manners, that would be just stupid. We don't know anything for certain other than the comprehensive perk chart revealed through recent leaks, and I believe it does justice to the developers to patiently wait until we get the final product, as opposed to propagating any form of skewed viewpoints (whether positive or negative).

Again, I'm nobody. This is just some guy on the internet rambling nonsense trying to make a point, or just a Fallout 4 fanboy yelling TODD PLEASE HAVE MY BABY, depending on your perspective.

[Sergius]

I like the perk system for now (can't say more until I actually experience it.)

For example, Sneak is now a perk. But also works as a skill, so you get better at it the more ranks. But also, each rank gives you Light Step, Silent Running and so on, rather than being separate perks. I assume Gun Nut is both the "guns" skill AND what you need to modify guns depending on how high your rank.

And magazines are their own Perk now, it seems.

[Flying Dice]

In fact, even as we speak right now, fallout 4 might be ridden with dozens and dozens of unaccounted game-breaking bugs that make the game impossible to play.

To be fair, it's a Bethesda game, there's no "might be" about it.

That said, the whining isn't about that. It's about people making largely baseless assumptions regarding what the game will be like and spiraling out from there. If you're contributing to that, folks: Remember the people crying about supposedly only being able to play a male character because only the male voice was showcased at the demo? You're just like them, no matter how you dress it up.

Fallout 4 has no level cap, and we’ve balanced the game to keep the content and challenge going for higher levels.

With luck this will circumvent older issues and dodge the problem of a wasteland full of supermutie masters and albino radscorpions.

I also like how they're making perks more about specialization than raw power, especially because it might mean less of the TES sort of master-of-everything characters.

The magazine perks are fucking amazing, it'll finally feel cool and meaningful to find a skillbook in FO.

[motorbitch]

hum. if you want real dialoges, i suggest to play pen and paper rpg with your friends.
afaik were far from anything that can pass the turing test, so intelligent conversations with npc bystanders may be a few years off.

Fallout 4 has no level cap, and we’ve balanced the game to keep the content and challenge going for higher levels.

With luck this will circumvent older issues and dodge the problem of a wasteland full of supermutie masters and albino radscorpions.

it also could lead to a wasteland that feels all the same all the time, no matter if you level up or not.
i liked the early gothic games for that... venture to far out into the dark woods as a new char, get eaten by the dragons.

[DoomOnion]

hum. if you want real dialoges, i suggest to play pen and paper rpg with your friends.
afaik were far from anything that can pass the turing test, so intelligent conversations with npc bystanders may be a few years off.

My PnP experience consists of a lot of real dialogues, but they have rarely been intelligent, I'll give you that! 

I think it's not about intelligent conversations, but more about maintaining the suspension of disbelief in the world with the dialogues so that the player can interact with it comfortably. In that sense, 111,000 lines would probably be enough to keep a player interested in the world for a few dozen hours.

[motorbitch]

i totally agree, suspension of disbeliev is a major issue with most computer rpg for me, too.
but it comes more from the fact that there are so few unimportant locations and npc.
usually, if i can open a door, there is something behind it thats important in one way or another. if i can talk to someone, he has to say something important.
even if its a big city, it usually is almost empty, even if it has many many buildings, i can enter only a selectet few.
so, for me its not important that npc all have to say something unique, or that every appartment has individual furniture.
post apocalyptic games like fallout do mitigate this a lot tho. most buildings will be ruins, and almost everybody is supposed to be dead XD

[AlleeCat]

mount and blade does well

I actually really like how Mount and Blade does it. It lets you pick between a few ways to do it, but I prefer to do it based on enemy position. Basically, if the enemy is below the center of you camera, you do an overhead strike, if the enemy is to the left, you swing from the right, etc.
It's a good way to do it, IMO.

[Rolan7]

Fallout 1 and 2 had a lot of nameless NPCs whose dialogue was basically determined by your faction status.  Like in the crime family bases, there'd be a lot of gangsters just wandering around saying "Watch it punk" or "Yous alright"

Fallout 3 and NV had that too though, really.  Maybe just not as much.  And Daggerfall did it excessively, the streets were full of unimportant people who'd give you directions and stuff.  I don't think that was the case in Morrowind through Skyrim though...  Everyone was either unique, a soldier/guard, or a bandit.  No generic unimportant civilians.  I don't remember many/any unused buildings, either...  The cities didn't feel tiny to me, but they really were.