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[forsaken1111]

So because you don't experience many CTDs, they don't exist?

Pretty sure he was just relating his own experience. It doesn't look like he's claiming that everyone else is lying about crashes...

[GiglameshDespair]

No, that is not what I claimed. It is, however, my experience that the "essential" mods are not.

[UXLZ]

Well, yes, SkyUI and the unnofficial patches aren't "essential" for playing Skyrim, much in the same that having eyes isn't "essential" for playing first person shooters.

The real issue I'd say people have with some of these though, is that the mods were there to fix something that was a failing on the dev's part in the first place.
It's not a totally accurate comparison, but it would be like someone selling you a car and forgetting to an include an engine, or dashboard, then charging you extra to get one.

[forsaken1111]

It's not a totally accurate comparison, but it would be like someone selling you a car and forgetting to an include an engine, or dashboard, then charging you extra to get one.

In the case of something like skyui its more like the manufacturer including a very basic dashboard and requiring you to pay to install a more functional one. Still seems a bit cheeky.

[Arbinire]

honestly I think the biggest problem here will be how it affects the console gamers.  There are infinite ways for PC gamers to circumvent all these issues, some reasonable, some unscrupulous, and I don't think after what happened to this the first time around that paid mods will be a thing for PC for some time...but since they're bringing mods to XBox and Playstation(eventually), this will be their target audience with some BS PR line about having to pay XBox Live or PSN for the hosting fees.

Then we get into the issues of mod compatability, some conflicts can be game breaking, how things like refunds(which how digital media has been will probably be fought tooth and nail on the retailer side) will be handled, how some of the bigger files will cause stress on those systems and potentially fry out the hardware, etc.  The whole thing screams of the Bethesda trademark "Wouldn't it be cool, if..." without the thought and foresight of potential consequences.  All they're seeing is the potential dollar signs.

[Retropunch]

I really don't think this will happen again - it was absolutely catastrophic last time. I can't remember such a big about-turn from a big developer so they must have been hit really, really hard by it.

However, when the marketing guy was saying they'd return, I imagine that they'll instead return as a sort of sponsored mod where they pick some good developers and allow them to make what are basically DLCs. These will probably be big content mods like Moonpath to Elsweyr, rather than just improvements.

Whilst this is just conjecture, I imagine they must have some sense and I doubt they'd risk sabotaging their launch (to any degree) by rolling out paid mods in the same way as before.

[BurnedToast]

Well, yes, SkyUI and the unnofficial patches aren't "essential" for playing Skyrim, much in the same that having eyes isn't "essential" for playing first person shooters.

The real issue I'd say people have with some of these though, is that the mods were there to fix something that was a failing on the dev's part in the first place.
It's not a totally accurate comparison, but it would be like someone selling you a car and forgetting to an include an engine, or dashboard, then charging you extra to get one.

This is utter bullshit. I'm sorry, but it is.

I played skyrim 100% vanilla and it was an enjoyable, complete experience. Do mods help fix rough edges (like the console UI)? Yes. Do mods add interesting new things? Yes. Do mods allow you to tailor the game more how you want it? yes. Mods are a huge plus point to a game.

But skyrim was still a very good game without them. Comparing it to a car without an engine or playing without eyeballs is just such ridiculous hyperbole it makes it impossible to take you seriously.

[scriver]

i foresee MAYBE 100,000 lost sales first month as a very optimistic estimate

I am only one person. I lack the charisma, energy, and skill to try to start any kind of movement. I don't have hundreds of friends or followers who care about what I say or listen to me. All I can do is try to influence people that I interact with to see things my way, whatever pitiful effect that might have in the end.

We don't even know what their plans for mods are, and mods certainly won't be available in the first two weeks. How could they be? So what exactly does waiting a week or two accomplish? Is that somehow going to show beth that we're against paid mods? I doubt it. And anyway, I'm NOT against paid mods. I don't CARE about paid mods. I simply won't participate in the system.

And I am asking you to care not on behalf of yourself, but for the sake of all of those who do care. As for whether or not it's happening, I certainly wouldn't bet against paid mods from the way it's looking now, and I don't see any reason to assume it won't.

Sims has been doing paid mods for years and the world hasn't ended. Beth making paid mods won't end the gaming industry.

I don't care about nor did I ever mention the video games industry. I care about the Bethesda games' modding community and culture.

In the case of something like skyui its more like the manufacturer including a very basic dashboard and requiring you to pay to install a more functional one. Still seems a bit cheeky.

No, it is more like the manufacturer not including a dashboard designed for use from the car I'm in. Or more precisely, a dashboard designed to be used through a controller from three metres away.

[UXLZ]

I played skyrim 100% vanilla and it was an enjoyable, complete experience. Do mods help fix rough edges (like the console UI)? Yes. Do mods add interesting new things? Yes. Do mods allow you to tailor the game more how you want it? yes. Mods are a huge plus point to a game.

But skyrim was still a very good game without them. Comparing it to a car without an engine or playing without eyeballs is just such ridiculous hyperbole it makes it impossible to take you seriously.

You found vanilla Skyrim to be enjoyable and a complete experience? My own experience differed, sadly, I found it to be a shallow, boring, horrible and clunky bug-ridden mess.

Yes, it's hyperbole, but I noted that. The point of hyperbole is to try and get something across, which unfortunately it seems I failed at. I believe Scriver's example is more accurate.

[forsaken1111]

Scriver what exactly are you asking me to do here? Buying the game a month after release won't matter a damn bit as far as paid mods go. What is your objective? To hurt initial sales of fallout 4 because of a rumor on the internet about paid mods?

And then you say you don't care about the games industry, only bethesda games. So why would I care about you or listen to you? You don't even care about the industry, just the actions of a single studio.

Bethesda isn't unique, they aren't the only one doing the things you appear to dislike. This shit will succeed or fail based on the market. If enough people buy the paid mods, paid mods will be a thing. If not, they will not.

For what it's worth, I think corrosivechains is absolutely correct. It doesn't matter at all what they do regarding paid mods on PC because we PC users have countless ways to circumvent those paywalls. Console users (bless their little misguided hearts) are locked in to manufacturer hardware and have little choice.

[Teneb]

It's not a rumor, since it was said by Zenimax's PR head himself. That said, not buying the game is probably a pretty ineffective way to prevent paid mods. Not buying paid mods, on the other hand, is actually voting with your wallet.

[forsaken1111]

It's not a rumor, since it was said by Zenimax's PR head himself. That said, not buying the game is probably a pretty ineffective way to prevent paid mods. Not buying paid mods, on the other hand, is actually voting with your wallet.

Source on the statement?

And yes, that is what I have been saying. Don't pay for the mods. There's no need to have everyone freak the hell out about this, just don't buy them.

[Teneb]

It's not a rumor, since it was said by Zenimax's PR head himself. That said, not buying the game is probably a pretty ineffective way to prevent paid mods. Not buying paid mods, on the other hand, is actually voting with your wallet.

Source on the statement?

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/fallout-4-news-bethesda-says-paid-mods-will-be-back-not-soon-459701

It has been posted multiple times in the thread.

[forsaken1111]

Oh, yes I saw that before. So all this panic is based on that? That isn't substantive. That's nothing.

[Krevsin]

It's pretty much the only thing we have to discuss with relation to Fallout 4.