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[Trapezohedron]

Also, I can't see how that works. I could understand "It's our game, blah blah, we own the rights to distribution and monetisation etc." but I just don't see how they can say. "If you make this thing, with this creation kit we provide, we OWN the thing."

It's like Adobe owning everything made with Flash. And Photoshop.

Thank good heavens for that, because otherwise we'd already have a Facebook on our hands.

aka whatever you post they technically own it, up to and including your personal data, pictures, et alia. That's technically content created BY YOU.

still this is kind of a cruel method to earn money really, capitalizing on other people's works. In certain business platforms it makes sense, but the modding scene is legally a grey area.

[forsaken1111]

And don't buy Bethesda's products either!

Screw that, Fallout 4 looks awesome. I just won't pay for a single mod.

F4 may look/be awesome, but Bethesda will leverage the cash you give them to push for paid mods. Probably hard.
If we were trying to encourage more developers to make RPGs similiar to TES/FO, then yeah we should buy the game--but that isn't the problem. TES is widely-recognized as a very successful video game & an especially successful RPG. In fact it's just about the gold standard.
What we're trying to do is dissuade a company from taking a course they're dead-set on, and to do that we need to stop giving that company money.
They aren't going to starve if you don't buy the game, and I doubt they'll determine no one likes fallout anymore if their record-breaking sales are slightly lower than projections. What they would do is actually take notice.


And I don't mean this personally, but do you think you'd hold to your convictions if the author responsible for your favorite, most indispensable mod decides to monetize? It's just (4) measly dollars after all. Exceptions are too easy to make, and they're the first step.

Yeah I don't care. I'm not missing out on fallout 4 so some "we" you think you're part of can make a political statement. I'm here to enjoy the game. If a mod costs a single penny I won't touch it. If enough people do the same, then paid mods will fail. If people buy them, then it's a successful business model. Either way I won't care because I'll be too busy playing fallout 4. Hell I barely play any AAA games these days as it is, so if all of them switched to paid mods it wouldn't bother me.

And I don't have a 'favorite most indispensable mod'. We're talking about fucking video games, not religion. Yes I can easily say "nope not paying". I might (and often do) donate to the specific author but the instant a mod is locked behind a corporate paywall is the instant in which my wallet closes. I'll enjoy the vanilla game I paid for and then move on to whatever interests me next.

You and I both known that every "paid" mod will be pirated within weeks if not days anyway, so I'll probably go that route if it comes to it in this increasingly hypothetical scenario you're spinning. And I'll remind you that nobody even has concrete evidence that any of this is going to happen, yeah? It's all silly.

[scriver]

Yeah I don't care. I'm not missing out on fallout 4 so some "we" you think you're part of can make a political statement. I'm here to enjoy the game.

What you and people like you could do, if you wanted to show solidarity with people who do care, is wait a month or even just two weeks after release before you buy it. It's the release day and first weeks' sales that matter the most in the vidya games business, so the longer you wait to buy it the more it matters. And you don't have to miss out on anything.

[Putnam]

i foresee MAYBE 100,000 lost sales first month as a very optimistic estimate

[forsaken1111]

Yeah I don't care. I'm not missing out on fallout 4 so some "we" you think you're part of can make a political statement. I'm here to enjoy the game.

What you and people like you could do, if you wanted to show solidarity with people who do care, is wait a month or even just two weeks after release before you buy it. It's the release day and first weeks' sales that matter the most in the vidya games business, so the longer you wait to buy it the more it matters. And you don't have to miss out on anything.

We don't even know what their plans for mods are, and mods certainly won't be available in the first two weeks. How could they be? So what exactly does waiting a week or two accomplish? Is that somehow going to show beth that we're against paid mods? I doubt it. And anyway, I'm NOT against paid mods. I don't CARE about paid mods. I simply won't participate in the system.

Steam has a system where you can buy and use cards to complete 'badges'. I don't use that either. It's stupid. I don't march in opposition of the system, I just don't use it. Sims has been doing paid mods for years and the world hasn't ended. Beth making paid mods won't end the gaming industry.

[Putnam]

the world hasn't ended but the sims' modding community is horrific and there's not really any official support for that and culturally it's still basically anathema over there

[Trapezohedron]

It is NEVER about the thing where you can ignore it. I mean, that's valid, it's your choice not to care after all. But the mere existence of this option as is will create a rift on the modding community where people enforce their rights in a great, negative manner and limit the guides and "hacks" people could use to create great mods because they could monetize it.

And there's also the area of mod-theft.

[forsaken1111]

Fair enough, but ignoring it is a valid option. If everyone did that, then the paid mod thing would flop hard. Not that I think that will happen, most people get all opinionated and feel like they need to fight or whatever.

In any case, at least I won't be supporting it by buying mods right?

And yeah, I wasn't saying the sims thing was a good example just that it hasn't 'ruined vidya games' like you people seem to expect.

[ShoesandHats]

Most modders do what they do because they like the game and want to make it better, not because they want money. All of the great mods for 3 and NV were created without the expectation of a return on their time investment. There were a few bigger mods that used the payment system on the workshop for the short time that Skyrim had it, but the vast majority of the "essential" mods remained free. I expect that there won't be very many paid mods for Fallout 4, or at least not very many successful ones. What few popular ones there are will probably be pretty high quality, or else people wouldn't pay for them.

Basically, I'm not too concerned. That said, I'd prefer everything remain free anyway. Doesn't mean I'll boycott the game I've been waiting for for 5 years, though.

[Krevsin]

If big mods get locked behind a paywall, I am perfectly fine with sailing aboard the Black Pearl again.

[Graknorke]

it hasn't 'ruined vidya games' like you people seem to expect.

[forsaken1111]

Oh, sorry. Is that not what was meant when people were claiming paid mods would infect the video game scene like some kind of plague?

Really though, this is all idle talk until we get something concrete. We have no idea if its even happening, people are getting upset over nothing.

[UXLZ]

Most modders do what they do because they like the game and want to make it better, not because they want money. All of the great mods for 3 and NV were created without the expectation of a return on their time investment. There were a few bigger mods that used the payment system on the workshop for the short time that Skyrim had it, but the vast majority of the "essential" mods remained free. I expect that there won't be very many paid mods for Fallout 4, or at least not very many successful ones. What few popular ones there are will probably be pretty high quality, or else people wouldn't pay for them.

Basically, I'm not too concerned. That said, I'd prefer everything remain free anyway. Doesn't mean I'll boycott the game I've been waiting for for 5 years, though.

Not like SkyUI's essential, that was left free though wasn't i-Oh. Right.

An even bigger kick in the teeth because Beth got to try and charge people for something to fix what they fucked up in the first place. Honestly, that's what I'm most worried about. Almost like a roundabout way of forcing people to pay for patches like DLC. I wonder if, assuming people behind whatever unnoficial patch comes out to fix Bethesda's broken game came out were willing, would Beth try to charge for something like that?

[GiglameshDespair]

For all this talk about mods being essential... I've never had problems. I've always found the UI fine. Neither have I ever really encountered glitches or CTDs.

So I must admit I lack a huge amount of rapport for those screaming mods are so vital the game is unplayably broken without them.

[miauw62]

So because you don't experience many CTDs, they don't exist?