Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Flying Dice]

Oblivion's story was a pileup of cliches. The only good part about it was that the PC wasn't The Chosen One, just a random asshole in the right place at the right time with the ability to murder fuckloads of everything.

Skyrim's civil war was pretty far from grey if you paid attention behind the scenes. The Empire's objectionable policies were almost entirely things forced on them by the elves, and despite losing the last war they were still the only thing big enough to have a shot at stopping the Thalmor plan (which can be very roughly summarized as "End the world, mer ascend, everyone else dies"). Ulfric was a self-centered asshole trying to seize power after smelling weakness, and a Stormcloak victory would have simultaneously isolated every potential non-Nord ally while also giving the Thalmor an excuse to go to war again.

Hell, you know that Ulfric's an ass before you even meet him. The dude challenged a 15(?) year old king to a duel for the high throne, then had to fucking cheat with Shouts because he was scared of fighting him honestly. Even if there wasn't the looming threat of the Thalmor in the background I'd have supported the Empire solely because the coward was asking to get his shit pushed in from the very start.

[forsaken1111]

Wasn't ulfric fed misinformation by the thalmer in order to incite the whole civil war?

[UXLZ]

I wasn't comparing how good the stories were, they're both terrible, I was pointing to the simplification. Morality becomes black and white as things get more simple, just compare the three great houses of Morrowind to what could be considered their similar in Skyrim (Thalmor, Imperial, Stormcloak, the three greatest political powers.)
Either that or you can compare Dagoth Ur to Alduin (Skyrim did have a bit of grey morality, mostly just with the forsworn though.) Anyway, I digress, the point is that if they're going the super simplified route with FO (which I hope they aren't) you can probably kiss most grey morality goodbye.BoS will be the good guys, Enclave will be the bad guys, raiders will be cartoon evil. 

Yeah, pretty sure he ends up expressing regret at some point because he didn't realise what Alduin was doing (he thought he was saving Sovngarde.)

I think you mean king of 15 years, not 15-year-old king. xD

Oh, and I hope that they give the larger factions a real proepr global presence, New Vegas did an excellent job of that with the NCR.

[Putnam]

I heard that Oblivion actually had a worse main story than Skyrim. Something about it being "horribly generic in both setting and tone".

I can't really tell since I've never played Oblivion. But as far as the civil war conflict in Skyrim goes, it's pretty gray. 'cept for the whole "Empire was gonna execute you" thing. The rest is basically "choose between horrible racists or a stagnant inefficient empire that bans religions"

1. the empire was forced into the religion banning by the far more powerful aldmeri dominion
2. fuck no Oblivion's story isn't generic, Mankar Camoran's stuff was mostly written by Michael Kirkbride and boy you can tell

[UXLZ]

Mankar Camoran isn't the ultimate focus of Oblivion's story, though. He's part of it for sure, but his actual on-screen time is actually quite sparse.

[Krevsin]

Skyrim's civil war was pretty far from grey if you paid attention behind the scenes. The Empire's objectionable policies were almost entirely things forced on them by the elves, and despite losing the last war they were still the only thing big enough to have a shot at stopping the Thalmor plan (which can be very roughly summarized as "End the world, mer ascend, everyone else dies"). Ulfric was a self-centered asshole trying to seize power after smelling weakness, and a Stormcloak victory would have simultaneously isolated every potential non-Nord ally while also giving the Thalmor an excuse to go to war again.

Hell, you know that Ulfric's an ass before you even meet him. The dude challenged a 15(?) year old king to a duel for the high throne, then had to fucking cheat with Shouts because he was scared of fighting him honestly. Even if there wasn't the looming threat of the Thalmor in the background I'd have supported the Empire solely because the coward was asking to get his shit pushed in from the very start.

Well in my defense I've only just begun exploring the Civil War questline and haven't really paid it much mind. 

Seriously, apart from the odd stormcloak/imperial soldier you see here and there and some lines of dialogue the NPCs have there really isn't much of a civil war going on.

[Flying Dice]

I wasn't comparing how good the stories were, they're both terrible, I was pointing to the simplification. Morality becomes black and white as things get more simple, just compare the three great houses of Morrowind to what could be considered their similar in Skyrim (Thalmor, Imperial, Stormcloak, the three greatest political powers.)
Either that or you can compare Dagoth Ur to Alduin (Skyrim did have a bit of grey morality, mostly just with the forsworn though.) Anyway, I digress, the point is that if they're going the super simplified route with FO (which I hope they aren't) you can probably kiss most grey morality goodbye.BoS will be the good guys, Enclave will be the bad guys, raiders will be cartoon evil. 

Yeah, pretty sure he ends up expressing regret at some point because he didn't realise what Alduin was doing (he thought he was saving Sovngarde.)

I think you mean king of 15 years, not 15-year-old king. xD

Oh, and I hope that they give the larger factions a real proepr global presence, New Vegas did an excellent job of that with the NCR.

Ah, you're right, I misremembered. Doesn't mean Ulfric wasn't cheating dishonburu scum though.

[Vendayn]

I kinda thought Skyrim had a worse storyline. And almost all the NPCs are vastly worse than any in oblivion. Except the Jarl of Whiterun, he is awesome.

Everything from the beginning. Like, Oblivion's sewer system was VASTLY more epic than the lame and very small prison fort.

And Ulfric...a lying politician douche that fools everyone like real world politicians. He even looks and sounds like a douche. I'm sure the actor is fine and all, but I'm actually talking about the character.

Then there is all the Stormcloak sheeple followers. They are pretty much based off real world followers of certain politicians in todays world, where they don't think for themselves but just go "OOO ULFRIC! LETS WORSHIP HIM! HE CAN DO NO WRONG!"

But then that doesn't stop with the Stormcloaks.

The Empire is pretty much real world based off the fall of the roman empire. Corruption, scandals, laziness, collapse of their capital empire (romans lost rome, somewhere down the line turned into the Byzantine Empire with the Constantinople city). And the Empire lost Imperial City (pretty much like Rome).

So, you got the idiotic Stormcloaks. And then the Empire that isn't worth fighting for either and I would never want to be a part of a corrupted empire that is on the verge of falling like the real world Romans did.

Then you got The Blades. They were awesome in Oblivion. Except, in Skyrim...they are douches.

Children in Skyrim are douches, I kill all of them except the two in Riverwood

Most of the NPCs in general are douches

In fact, the only ones I sorta like are Thalmor...they are douches, but at least they aren't lazy as hell like the Empire. And its pretty obvious in-game what they are doing, unlike the lying politician Ulfric who isn't so upfront with his agenda

Gameplay wise. The Brotherhood is okay, but Oblivion was vastly better. The thieves guild is the worst guild I've ever seen in Elder Scrolls...its not even a thieves guild like Oblivion was. The mage guild is okay, its a mage guild. The companions are okay at first, but then the game goes "lol I'm gonna force you to be a werewolf if you join us"

In fact, the game doesn't give you many choices. It forces quests upon you, it forces quest decisions on you (like werewolf) and like the redguards that come up to you just randomly in whiterun, you can't even avoid them. WTF?

The only faction I'd ever want to be a part of in Skyrim is Thalmor, and they aren't that great as it is.


Anyway, hopefully Fallout 4 does better NPCs and quests than Skyrim. Cause Oblivion (vanilla gameplay wise) was vastly better. At least all of Oblivions were likeable for the most part. Even the douchey ones were MUCH better than the ones in Skyrim.

From what I saw, Fallout 4 has a vastly better in-game start than Fallout 3 did...come on...starting pre-war? How epic is that. Even if its short or not, still amazing. And gonna allow some really epic mods down the road with all those pre-war assets. And character customization looks amazing...you already know the "body" (heh heh) mods that will come out for it rofl. And the player not being a mute is a vast improvement too...far more modern for gaming. Voice acting looks improved to.

The only thing I hope is that Fallout 4 doesn't force quests upon you like they did in Skyrim. That was epic fail. Maybe the main storyline I can deal with doing that, don't really care about that. Just not random quests I never want to do.

[Vendayn]

Crafting looks amazing for Fallout 4. I'm probably most excited about that as I can make so many different weapons.

And...I want to make a pre-war fallout overhaul as soon as I am able to. Unless someone beats me to it I think that would be epic.

I think there are probably going to be a lot of people going for a pre-war Fallout mod though Or maybe not, in any case...at least a portion of the assets will be available. Dunno how many assets there will be in pre-war Fallout, but should be a good enough start.

[SOLDIER First]

I think the literal best change I can think of is that weapons will be unique. Not just "9mm pistol" x infinity, it might be "Burst pistol" or "Silenced 9mm" or "Stocked Incendiary Explosive 9mm". And I especially love that you can craft mods, you're not physically incapable of shaping metal into a tube for a silencer like in New Vegas.

[Gunner-Chan]

I think the literal best change I can think of is that weapons will be unique. Not just "9mm pistol" x infinity, it might be "Burst pistol" or "Silenced 9mm" or "Stocked Incendiary Explosive 9mm".

And yet, I'm pretty sure every random guy we shoot will have "10mm pistol" or "Hunting rifle" because something tells me the granular mod system exists only for the player.

It might not though, which would be amazing and potentially scary if some random raider ends up with a "10mm nanomatic combat rifle" or something

[Flying Dice]

It'd practically have to, to some degree, I'd think. There's no Repair skill, so I'm speculating (of course) that more complex and advanced weapon components would be restricted until you found a weapon with them. So you can't make a gun with a Laser Hyperspiffulator Module until you find an existing gun which has one.

[Vendayn]

I doubt Bethesda would skimp on having enemies have the typical weapons. I'd imagine there would be a large variety that drop, so the loot could in fact be incredibly random. That would be really amazing.

[Ehndras]

I thoroughly enjoyed FO3, and the same with FO4. Each had their elements which I preferred over the other, much like my experience with the Elder Scrolls series. Each games wins and loses on different levels, but amounts to an incredible journey either way.

I look forward to seeing what FO4 has in store for us. I'm happy to know its going to be located somewhere I actually have a vague idea about, being from the NY/NJ/PA tri-state area myself.

[Wimopy]

Connecting to Vendayn's post here: why are children such huge jerks (FO3 and Skyrim)? It's like they know you can't touch them and they don't give much thanks for anything
 Sure, they probably don't get educated much, but the adults are usually fine, so how do they get like that?

Random guy walks to Little Lamplight, has a gun pointed at him when he just wants to pass into a super mutant infested area. The guy would just walk into that area, you think a few kids could stop him? Answer: yes, because immortality and a flimsy gate.

The random children in Skyrim aren't any better either. Not surprising there ain't many of them around (compared to the families).


I do have high hopes for FO4 myself. Seems as they are making an effort to appease the players with good new features, though it also feels a bit like they are just riding the waves made by the most popular mods... guess we'll have to wait and see.