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[Draignean]

Huh, am I the only one here seriously considering ordering the pip-boy edition?

The reasons are twofold:

• Playing a game on launch day is a special thing. It's sort of been degraded because you aren't standing in line for it any more, but it's a nostalgia hit. It also gives you a good baseline to measure mods &c. against, and if you're motivated you can help catalog the bugs.
• If you don't play it at its worst you can't be a condescending e-geezer when people complain about later, lesser issues.  :P

The first is also very important. Being one of the first people to experience something is special. It makes it so that when you talk with your friends (or random stranger, or dog/cat) about what you just played, you're both experiencing the same sense of wonder and "I can't wait to see THAT!" that the Bethesda induced water cooler chats do so well. Hell, even the parts of Skyrim that turned out to be pretty awful (namely, that ending) were thrilling to skirt the edge of spoilers with when you hadn't played it through yet.

Exploring in Morrowind is fun, in Skyrim it isn't, since you know where everything is before you find it anyway.
Actually, I think that's the difference. If I were to describe the paths you take, Skyrim is full of straight lines from locaton to location, looking at the compass more than the actual screen. In Morrowind you meander, get distracted, spot something interesting and go over to check it out. You meander, you actually search for things, and since it isn't as saturated finding something's a genuinejoy. I remember the first time I played Morrowind I stumbled onto a Daedric Shrine all by myself and was like "Whoaaah, this place is awesome. I wonder what I can find?"

I agree with this 100%. Hunting through the angular architecture of a daedric ruin to find the bloody door was real exploration. Actually double checking all those marshy coastal islands for hidden dungeons (which often had incredible loot) was real exploration. Learning to tell the difference, at a distant glance, from the entrance to a dunmer ancestral tomb and a funnily shaped rock seemed like the kind of skill an adventurer would actually develop.

Quest markers are occasionally very nice things. Some of the directions in Morrowind were the fantasy equivalent of 'turn left at the dead cow', but their excessive use can be irritating.

[forsaken1111]

I am amused by the idea that standing in a line somehow makes playing a game more special

[Draignean]

I am amused by the idea that standing in a line somehow makes playing a game more special

You're missing a critical word. Standing in a line (if you're really pumped about it) makes playing the game feel more special. Anticipation is a critical part of human psyche, and is integrally related to emotion. Horror movies and games have shown us (repeatedly) that  showing us a big bloody face with hanging bits of tendon and an exposed larynx that pulses constantly as though still trying to scream is effective once for shock value, but keeping the monster just out of sight and revealing it piece by piece can keep people in a state of near-urination for hours. (Amnesia: The Dark Descent, excellent example of what you can do with this idea)

The idea that standing in a line makes something feel special (when the person standing in line has an investment) is better known as dramatic tension. And is a well known literary device that is absolutely stunning when done correctly. When someone in a tense situation (waiting on a test result, doctor's notice, job posting) says that it's the waiting they can't stand, this is what's getting them.

Does standing in line make a game more special? No, not one little bitty bit. Does it make if feel more special? Absolutely. It's the ticking lurch at the beginning of the roller coaster, the slow ascent that can somehow manage to induce more terror than the ride itself, and finally the awful/wonderful lurch of going over the edge and getting what you want.

[UXLZ]

I would agree with you that there was a benefit to standing in line/getting a game day one if we still lived in 2005 and games working out of the box was the norm, rather than vice-versa.

Still, getting it day one at least isn't as inanely stupid as pre-ordering. At least that way you can wait a few hours to see if it at least kinda-sorta works well enough to be worth playing, and doesn't crash immediately after the tutorial. 

[Draignean]

I would agree with you that there was a benefit to standing in line/getting a game day one if we still lived in 2005 and game's working out of the box was the norm, rather than vice-versa.

Don't know what to tell you. I played Skyrim day one, had one CTD. I don't even remember if Fallout 3 had a crash until I started doing stupid things with it. Fallout NV I remember being an incredibly stable vanilla. However, my meaningless personal anecdotes that add nothing to logical discussion aside, it's a matter of perception. You and forsaken may derive no benefit from the immediate waiting period, having already rationalized that (bear with me here) that the game will be better if you wait a little longer. Different personality types, different methods of deriving enjoyment. Flying Dice and myself will benefit from waiting in line, or checking every five minutes for a package, or waiting up every minute for the midnight unlock, whichever particular poison we've chosen.

[UXLZ]

Skyrim wasn't unstable but CTD-wise but incredibly buggy.
I believe FO3 and especially New Vegas were fine... But then again, New Vegas was made by a different studio.
Still, those games came out at the dawn of the new era. It wasn't common for release day games to be unplayable yet, though I think there was still crap like Sim City 5's launch.

Poison indeed. I'll just hope for your sake that Bethesda doesn't go the Ubisoft route and you actually have a functional game to play. At least with Steam Refunds now existing immediate failures won't be as bad, though a game like FO4 I can see crashing at 3, or 4, or 5.

I do have a very logic and rationality-driven thought process, but please for the love of god don't pre-order. At least wait until they announce the inevitable pre-order exclusive bonus content. You'll still get your anticipation high from waiting in line or waiting for it to unlock, but there is literally no reason to pre-order right now. Even from a perspective like yours it should still seem ridiculous, since it's starting the wait waaaay too early and you'll be excitement-fatigued by the time it comes out (or something.)

[Draignean]

Skyrim wasn't unstable but CTD-wise but incredibly buggy.
I believe FO3 and especially New Vegas were fine... But then again, New Vegas was made by a different studio.
Still, those games came out at the dawn of the new era. It wasn't common for release day games to be unplayable yet, though I think there was still crap like Sim City 5's launch.

Poison indeed. I'll just hope for your sake that Bethesda doesn't go the Ubisoft route and you actually have a functional game to play. At least with Steam Refunds now existing immediate failures won't be as bad, though a game like FO4 I can see crashing at 3, or 4, or 5.

I do have a very logic and rationality-driven thought process, but please for the love of god don't pre-order. At least wait until they announce the inevitable pre-order exclusive bonus content. You'll still get your anticipation high from waiting in line or waiting for it to unlock, but there is literally no reason to pre-order right now. Even from a perspective like yours it should still seem ridiculous, since it's starting the wait waaaay too early and you'll be excitement-fatigued by the time it comes out (or something.)

I will almost undoubtedly pre-order. However, I probably won't preorder until I've bought and built the PC I'm going to be using to play the game. That deadline is almost 100 days out, so there's time. If, however, the pip-boy edition runs low of stock I'll be forced to make a hard call on how much I want an unwieldy chunk of plastic. Makes a great gift though, even if I don't end up buying that edition for myself.

Even from a perspective like yours it should still seem ridiculous, since it's starting the wait waaaay too early and you'll be excitement-fatigued by the time it comes out (or something.)

Careful, UXLZ "Even from a perspective like yours", is a great beginning to an insult, not a logical and rational argument. I do, however, agree. I'm a fanboy, but, as I said above, there's a lot of time left on the clock. Plus it falls on a Tuesday near the end of the fall semester, so I'll need to be a bit more temporally proximate to know if I'll even be able to play it at all on the release date. Plus, it releases on the birthday of the U.S marine core, so it's entirely possible I might be out for other reasons.

[scriver]

-sigh-, pre-order pre-order. I'll probably wait 'till the game is released, buy it, then pirate it so I can get inevitable pre-order exclusive content without having to commit such a stupid act.

If I think it's actually anything interesting, that is. I don't want something that just makes you more powerful quickly. Higher level loot is never a good idea for pre-order/dlc content unless it has to be earned at a place of equivalent difficulty.

It should be noted that until we know exactly what kind of anti-piracy stuff that bethesda.net thing will include we don't know if pirating it will be possible feasible. It could very well be that Beth wants to use mod attraction power as DRM or something.

[AlleeCat]

Skyrim wasn't unstable but CTD-wise but incredibly buggy.
I believe FO3 and especially New Vegas were fine... But then again, New Vegas was made by a different studio.
Still, those games came out at the dawn of the new era. It wasn't common for release day games to be unplayable yet, though I think there was still crap like Sim City 5's launch.

Sim City 5, Diablo 3, Arkham Knight...

[Flying Dice]

I do have a very logic and rationality-driven thought process, but please for the love of god don't pre-order. At least wait until they announce the inevitable pre-order exclusive bonus content.

That's exactly what I was originally saying. 

That, and I want to make sure my computer can run it. I can handle Skyrim with 2k texture mods everywhere and all the settings up high, so I should be fine, but better safe than sorry.

[KingofstarrySkies]

but the preorder bonus is physical :/

[miauw62]

-sigh-, pre-order pre-order. I'll probably wait 'till the game is released, buy it, then pirate it so I can get inevitable pre-order exclusive content without having to commit such a stupid act.

If I think it's actually anything interesting, that is. I don't want something that just makes you more powerful quickly. Higher level loot is never a good idea for pre-order/dlc content unless it has to be earned at a place of equivalent difficulty.

It should be noted that until we know exactly what kind of anti-piracy stuff that bethesda.net thing will include we don't know if pirating it will be possible feasible. It could very well be that Beth wants to use mod attraction power as DRM or something.

Eh, they'll crack it. Being the first to have a crack for a hyped-up game is an achievement in that world, or so I've heard. And I very much doubt that trying to separate modding from the established websites is going to end well.

[scriver]

but the preorder bonus is physical :/

I don't think they've announced a preorder bonus yet? The pip-boy thingy is, iirc, a special collector's/pip-boy edition.

[forsaken1111]

Does standing in line make a game more special? No, not one little bitty bit. Does it make if feel more special? Absolutely. It's the ticking lurch at the beginning of the roller coaster, the slow ascent that can somehow manage to induce more terror than the ride itself, and finally the awful/wonderful lurch of going over the edge and getting what you want.

I guess everyone has their little quirks. Personally I couldn't stand the whole midnight release event and gamer culture crap so I avoid brick and mortar stores. Games are things I do for entertainment. No way am I going to wait breathlessly in line for the privilege of owning one.

[JimboM12]

I don't usually preorder myself, but then those games that reach lvl 5 on my "HOLY SHIT, MUST HAVE" meter I end up caving and getting on release or just before release. I waited to get the Paradox super pack thing (CK2 with DLC, EU4, Vicky 2, and HoI3) until that was on a major sale. But then I turn around and grab X: Rebirth a day or 2 before release. It varies with me.

The last midnight release thing I did at a store was for Starcraft 2. It was actually a hoot, tbh. The store had overstock of promo pieces they started giving out as rewards for a quiz thing. Asked questions about the starcraft universe at first, then degenerated to nerd shit, and we were loving it. "Which starcraft hero did X?" "EN TARO TASSADAR!" and the crowd goes wild, being hopped up on energy drinks and hype. Good times, but then I money and time back then.

Anyway, the FO4 hype has led me to reinstall Fallout 2, 3, and New Vegas. Still couldn't find my disk for Fallout 1. Anyway, got the Restoration project for 2 with a better Miria mod and larger companion limit and its better then I remembered.
Miria's actually damn good with a 10mm SMG, at med-short distances. Cassidy's got a CAWs I got early off a dead raider, and he's shredding shit. Vic's alright, I got him a hunting rifle and he's alright with it. Sulik I got a suit of metal armor and a .223 pistol, by far he's the most consistently deadly. I plan on picking up Marcus and Goris when I get there. Didn't get Lenny cuz his sprite doesn't run, and I don't wanna leave him behind, but for completions sake I might go back and pick him up too. Gonna leave a certain genius asshole kid where he is, cuz I'm mister goody two shoes. Surprised we can all fit in my shiny pimp car.

Which brings me to Fallout 4 speculation/hype; will it have the same diverse array of companions as all the other games? Considering they're adding PC voices, and im assuming with actual conversations, they might limit it so they can focus on companion stories/interaction. I wonder if they're going to have to make it so you need power armor training again, the E3 demo looked like a staged battle, tbh, and I assume we have to learn how to use such a suit now that its not an inventory item no more. That actually sounds really awesome, I hope one of our early companions is someone who knows nothing about combat and we get to teach them how to shoot as we go and eventually teach to use power armor. Basically, I want another Miria who's much less annoying without mods.