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[Krevsin]

It's been long enough since FO3 for him to be dead and buried.

...do we actually know when it takes place

We know that FO3 began exactly 200 years after the bombs fell. Elder Lyons was already old as fuck and preparing to die at that point. I don't think we've heard anything definitive about FO4 beyond "roughly 200 years later", but I'd guess that it was enough difference (which could mean as few as 1-2 years, honestly) for Lyons to be out of the picture. That's if you want to go with the interpretation that the D.C. BoS are involved, rather than just the Midwesterners.

Also, because I really don't see Lyons deciding to start a crusade against the Institute when the Wasteland around D.C. is still fucked up and full of assorted minor assholes. The fact that the BoS in FO4 have Vertibirds (which as far as we know only the D.C. BoS have), the blimps (which the D.C. BoS don't have), and motivation enough to apparently attack the Institute is what says to me that it's a group of BoS which includes the D.C. chapter (but is not limited to them), and that Lyons is either dead or sidelined.

Fallout 3 implied heavily that BoS and the Outcasts were on the brink of war and the only thing that prevented the BoS from escalating the conflict was Lyons and some of the paladins. Oh, and the whole enclave thing. In fact if the BoS and outcast patrols meet eachother, they will engage in combat. So tensions are high and the situation is volatile.

I expect Fallout 4 will expand on this conflict if they choose to include the DC chapter.

[scriver]

Sigh. I still find myself wishing Beth would have had the sense to lake the BoS the Outcasts and the Outcasts the BoS. It would have been so much smoother. And the Outcasts have cooler armour design.

But we definitely saw in the presentation the main character fighting BoS.

And they were only presented as enemies.

All we saw was some random, contextless clips from a fight. It's not like you couldn't randomly decide to attack the BoS in F3 just because they were Designated Good Guys in the plot.

[Flying Dice]

It's been long enough since FO3 for him to be dead and buried.

...do we actually know when it takes place

We know that FO3 began exactly 200 years after the bombs fell. Elder Lyons was already old as fuck and preparing to die at that point. I don't think we've heard anything definitive about FO4 beyond "roughly 200 years later", but I'd guess that it was enough difference (which could mean as few as 1-2 years, honestly) for Lyons to be out of the picture. That's if you want to go with the interpretation that the D.C. BoS are involved, rather than just the Midwesterners.

Also, because I really don't see Lyons deciding to start a crusade against the Institute when the Wasteland around D.C. is still fucked up and full of assorted minor assholes. The fact that the BoS in FO4 have Vertibirds (which as far as we know only the D.C. BoS have), the blimps (which the D.C. BoS don't have), and motivation enough to apparently attack the Institute is what says to me that it's a group of BoS which includes the D.C. chapter (but is not limited to them), and that Lyons is either dead or sidelined.

Fallout 3 implied heavily that BoS and the Outcasts were on the brink of war and the only thing that prevented the BoS from escalating the conflict was Lyons and some of the paladins. Oh, and the whole enclave thing. In fact if the BoS and outcast patrols meet eachother, they will engage in combat. So tensions are high and the situation is volatile.

I expect Fallout 4 will expand on this conflict if they choose to include the DC chapter.

So the primary reason the Outcasts split off from the D.C. BoS is simultaneously the reason they're not at war with each other? You do remember why the divide happened, right? Lyons decided to go full charitymodo and part of the chapter didn't like that. Lyons and his worldview is the one thing (apart from the tensions caused by the separation) which split the chapter. Remove him from the picture, give them a couple years under a new leader, and I can easily see the factions reuniting. Even more so if an external group of BoS came through and cleaned house -- if the D.C. chapter didn't go back to their old ways, it's equally possible that an external group of BoS helped the Outcasts retake the Pentagon and the Outcasts are the D.C. chapter now.

[Krevsin]

It's been long enough since FO3 for him to be dead and buried.

...do we actually know when it takes place

We know that FO3 began exactly 200 years after the bombs fell. Elder Lyons was already old as fuck and preparing to die at that point. I don't think we've heard anything definitive about FO4 beyond "roughly 200 years later", but I'd guess that it was enough difference (which could mean as few as 1-2 years, honestly) for Lyons to be out of the picture. That's if you want to go with the interpretation that the D.C. BoS are involved, rather than just the Midwesterners.

Also, because I really don't see Lyons deciding to start a crusade against the Institute when the Wasteland around D.C. is still fucked up and full of assorted minor assholes. The fact that the BoS in FO4 have Vertibirds (which as far as we know only the D.C. BoS have), the blimps (which the D.C. BoS don't have), and motivation enough to apparently attack the Institute is what says to me that it's a group of BoS which includes the D.C. chapter (but is not limited to them), and that Lyons is either dead or sidelined.

Fallout 3 implied heavily that BoS and the Outcasts were on the brink of war and the only thing that prevented the BoS from escalating the conflict was Lyons and some of the paladins. Oh, and the whole enclave thing. In fact if the BoS and outcast patrols meet eachother, they will engage in combat. So tensions are high and the situation is volatile.

I expect Fallout 4 will expand on this conflict if they choose to include the DC chapter.

So the primary reason the Outcasts split off from the D.C. BoS is simultaneously the reason they're not at war with each other? You do remember why the divide happened, right? Lyons decided to go full charitymodo and part of the chapter didn't like that. Lyons and his worldview is the one thing (apart from the tensions caused by the separation) which split the chapter. Remove him from the picture, give them a couple years under a new leader, and I can easily see the factions reuniting. Even more so if an external group of BoS came through and cleaned house -- if the D.C. chapter didn't go back to their old ways, it's equally possible that an external group of BoS helped the Outcasts retake the Pentagon and the Outcasts are the D.C. chapter now.

What I meant to say was that the only thing preventing BoS from going all-out-war with the Outcasts is Lyons and some of his paladins keeping the BoS under their leash and the Outcasts having some measure of respect for the old coot. Remember, the Brotherhood is very much based on pseudo-knightly nonsense (hurray president Eden) and while the Outcasts dislike Lyons' worldview, they still have a lot of respect for him because he is a very experienced elder who has led the brotherhood through some tough times.

Listening to what the senior brotherhood scribes and paladins have to say about the outcasts paints an image of a relationship that while unfriendly is not entirely hostile. They understand why the Outcasts made their decision and even have a certain measure of respect for them, but in the end, the Outcasts chose wrong and the only reason they seem to restrain themselves from striking against the Outcasts outright is the fact that Lyons forbids it.

Now, the Outcasts aren't nearly as well characterized as the Brotherhood since you are only given very few non-dismissive Outcasts to talk with, but given the way senior members of the Brotherhood seem to feel about the Outcasts it is not too difficult to imagine the Outcasts feeling much the same way and having the same respect for Lyons prevent them from open war (remember, the outcasts are comprised entirely of former members of the brotherhood who were heavily indoctrinated into the dogma).

Once Lyons dies, so does the respect the Outcasts have for him and the conflict escalates. Similarily, the BoS due to its influx of newly recruited members who aren't as well indoctrinated as the old guard, has a much harder time containing the desire for war. They cannot reconcile with the Outcasts yet neither side can tolerate eachother's existence, thus leading into an all-out war.

[Rakonas]

The thing about BoS vs. Outcasts is that there's no practical reason to fight. The Outcasts think that the BoS is wasting its time and resources on philanthropy when it needs to protect the wasteland from itself by hoarding tech. The BoS think that the Outcasts shouldn't be recluses and instead should be building rapport with the wasteland, essentially reconstructing the Old World. It doesn't make sense for either to risk lives in the hope of killing their former brethren. Once Elder Lyons dies there's a decent chance of the BoS reversing course and thereby diplomatically solving the problem, and the same is probably true as time advances for the Outcasts.

[Vendayn]

The first overhaul I hope gets released, and should be easy.

Pre-War Fallout Overhaul

It would look AMAZING, and be so awesome to play. Can start as just a texture overhaul and then let others build on it. Whoever is first to release it, would pave the way for future mods if done earlier than later. If done early, instead of later in Fallout's life...can be one of the most popular mods for FO4.

All the assets would already be there. Bethesda has already done all the work since you start in pre-war fallout.

[Puzzlemaker]

It would be cool to have some invasion forces in some mod.

[PTTG??]

The first overhaul I hope gets released, and should be easy.

Pre-War Fallout Overhaul

It would look AMAZING, and be so awesome to play. Can start as just a texture overhaul and then let others build on it. Whoever is first to release it, would pave the way for future mods if done earlier than later. If done early, instead of later in Fallout's life...can be one of the most popular mods for FO4.

All the assets would already be there. Bethesda has already done all the work since you start in pre-war fallout.

Interesting... but keep in mind that the resources will probably be pretty limited simply because you won't be there very long.

[Zangi]

It would be cool to have some invasion forces in some mod.

I'm pretty sure there are random bandit/whatever attacks on your outposts?  Unless you mean Chinese invaders or something.

[Puzzlemaker]

It would be cool to have some invasion forces in some mod.

I'm pretty sure there are random bandit/whatever attacks on your outposts?  Unless you mean Chinese invaders or something.

Yeah I meant chinese invaders in a fallout pre-war mod.

[GiglameshDespair]

The thing about BoS vs. Outcasts is that there's no practical reason to fight. The Outcasts think that the BoS is wasting its time and resources on philanthropy when it needs to protect the wasteland from itself by hoarding tech. The BoS think that the Outcasts shouldn't be recluses and instead should be building rapport with the wasteland, essentially reconstructing the Old World. It doesn't make sense for either to risk lives in the hope of killing their former brethren. Once Elder Lyons dies there's a decent chance of the BoS reversing course and thereby diplomatically solving the problem, and the same is probably true as time advances for the Outcasts.

Dislike is reason enough for many people.

I suppose the Outcasts could consider the BoS to be squandering tech and botherhood paladins in a pointless struggle and diluting the purity of the order with plentiful local recruits. In FO1, you had to do quite a lot before you were permitted to join, and BoS in capital wasteland is just hiring every shmuck they can get. They might see once Lyons dies it shifts even more towards a local support group as the leaders with Outcast tendencies already left, leaving only the non-Outcasts.

So the Outcasts could want war in order to regain control of the technology the BoS is wasting against the mutants, and the BoS could see the Outcasts as... well, if you know someone wants you dead, you don't tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

But overall, bad blood between factions speaks more than is "rational".

[KingofstarrySkies]

I just imagined two BoS soldiers in full armor arm-wrestling. My day has been made.

[Flying Dice]

The thing about BoS vs. Outcasts is that there's no practical reason to fight. The Outcasts think that the BoS is wasting its time and resources on philanthropy when it needs to protect the wasteland from itself by hoarding tech. The BoS think that the Outcasts shouldn't be recluses and instead should be building rapport with the wasteland, essentially reconstructing the Old World. It doesn't make sense for either to risk lives in the hope of killing their former brethren. Once Elder Lyons dies there's a decent chance of the BoS reversing course and thereby diplomatically solving the problem, and the same is probably true as time advances for the Outcasts.

Dislike is reason enough for many people.

I suppose the Outcasts could consider the BoS to be squandering tech and botherhood paladins in a pointless struggle and diluting the purity of the order with plentiful local recruits. In FO1, you had to do quite a lot before you were permitted to join, and BoS in capital wasteland is just hiring every shmuck they can get. They might see once Lyons dies it shifts even more towards a local support group as the leaders with Outcast tendencies already left, leaving only the non-Outcasts.

So the Outcasts could want war in order to regain control of the technology the BoS is wasting against the mutants, and the BoS could see the Outcasts as... well, if you know someone wants you dead, you don't tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

But overall, bad blood between factions speaks more than is "rational".

The Outcasts aren't actually very different in that regard. Remember the Operation Anchorage DLC? Those were BoS Outcasts. Literally all you had to do was show up, even as a random asshole Wastes wanderer with level 3 gear, say "Oi, I'll do that shit for you," go through the Sim, and they'd let you clear out that armory full of high-tech weapons and gear, including the best suit of power armor in the D.C. area. You, a random asshole that they didn't know from Adam, was permitted to walk away with a mountain of high-tech ordinance by the Outcasts.

The difference between the factions existed primarily because the writers were at least trying to pay lip service to the idea of the BoS (while simultaneously making the ones that stuck to their guns instead of kowtowing to Lyons' philanthropic ideal the "bad" BoS).

Honestly, I have no problems predicting reconciliation as soon as Lyons as gone. The BoS was bleeding people left and right trying to stem the Supermutie tide, the Outcasts have people and gear. Sarah Lyons was pretty gung-ho, from what I remember, I'd totally bet on her sacrificing some of the Elder's ideals in exchange for reuniting the chapter if she ended up in charge (as it seemed like she was being groomed for the position).

[AoshimaMichio]

The Outcasts aren't actually very different in that regard. Remember the Operation Anchorage DLC? Those were BoS Outcasts. Literally all you had to do was show up, even as a random asshole Wastes wanderer with level 3 gear, say "Oi, I'll do that shit for you," go through the Sim, and they'd let you clear out that armory full of high-tech weapons and gear, including the best suit of power armor in the D.C. area. You, a random asshole that they didn't know from Adam, was permitted to walk away with a mountain of high-tech ordinance by the Outcasts.

The difference between the factions existed primarily because the writers were at least trying to pay lip service to the idea of the BoS (while simultaneously making the ones that stuck to their guns instead of kowtowing to Lyons' philanthropic ideal the "bad" BoS).

Honestly, I have no problems predicting reconciliation as soon as Lyons as gone. The BoS was bleeding people left and right trying to stem the Supermutie tide, the Outcasts have people and gear. Sarah Lyons was pretty gung-ho, from what I remember, I'd totally bet on her sacrificing some of the Elder's ideals in exchange for reuniting the chapter if she ended up in charge (as it seemed like she was being groomed for the position).

Did you forgot good number of those very same Outcasts didn't really want to give PC anything? I had to always fight my way out of there because they had some internal debate via gatling lasers and figured to kill me as well since I was source of their violent debate.

[Putnam]

Also, the only reason they need you is for your pip-boy.