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[Glloyd]

I dunno, I felt Fallout New Vegas was far more linear than Fallout 3 and 4 are.

More linear?

Not sure if you're just trolling or not, so I'll just repost an old meme here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

NV was vastly less linear, especially in regards to the main story. It had its factions that were actually well fleshed out, (unlike FO4) within which there were a number of optional missions that would influence the outcome of the final game. You could even just say fuck it and do your own thing. At the same time, you could put off going to NV as long as you wanted, as there were an insane amount of sidequests outside the city (a number of which were very good, and most of which were better than the radiant quest garbage of FO4). You didn't even need to go to NV to gamble, there was that Vikki and Vance casino you could gamble in near the starting town.  I don't think I even got to NV on my first playthrough until I was around level 17 or so, I spent a ton of time doing sidequests and exploring in the south of the map before I went there.

I dunno how it's less linear in your eyes tbh. It was well developed enough that there were different paths that you could influence the way you liked, or just put off while you do sidequests or play the 2 good DLCs. FO4 was literally just: leave vault > kill raiders > go to diamond city > kill ghouls > find the institute > faff about with radiant quests until you're buddy buddy with a faction > enjoy your unsatisfying ending, so maybe because there was nothing to the main quest it felt less linear? And FO3's map was at least as linear as NV's. Remember trying to navigate the DC ruins? It was just walking down subway lines between small areas.

[scriver]

F4's quest structure is more linear than NV, but it's map isn't. While you could go north immediately at start and abuse AI and geometry to survive the cazadores and deathclaws, or just run like an idiot past them I suppose, if you go south the game doesn't really open up until you're past Nipton, maybe even as far as Novac and the Veronica trading post. Before that you're not really able to branch off the route in any meaningful way, mostly the "linearity choice" level is at "Do I visit this town or just walk past it".

Whereas in f4 the game is technically open to you immediately, though I would set the real opening at after... Deathclaw town (Concord?). This makes it less linear. I still prefer NV's structure (though after playing through the start a bsxillion times I am super tired of killing power bangers for hours before you get to the fun stuff (killing legionairies). Less linear does not automatically mean better.

[Putnam]

Christ, getting to Vegas is, like, the first 10-20% of the game, I cannot by any means regard the whole game as linear just because of that.

[Neonivek]

Christ, getting to Vegas is, like, the first 10-20% of the game, I cannot by any means regard the whole game as linear just because of that.

It can be best. There is very little stopping you from going straight there except Boredom.

[scriver]

Christ, getting to Vegas is, like, the first 10-20% of the game, I cannot by any means regard the whole game as linear just because of that.

The wording was "more linear".

[Neonivek]

You get the impression that as the games go on the vault experiments make less and less sense?

Originally they were created to simulate the sort of conditions THEIR vaulters might experience... They were sometimes cruel or even deadly but there was something in there.

But now it just seems that Vault-Tec were just sick SOBs. (Especially after New Vegas... Which had the worst vaults in the entire series... and I am including Fallout Tactics)

[Jimmy]

So what was everyone's most and least favourite factions and companions in Fallout 4?

Favourite Companion: Nick Valentine
The combination of thick Boston accent and hard-boiled private detective attitude mixed with a sarcastic sense of humour and brilliant one-liners make Nick Valentine my favourite partner in the Commonwealth. The added benefit is that Nick has no affiliation with any faction, meaning he has no secret agenda other than his own moral compass. Plus he's one of the few companions capable of reminiscing about pre-war times, with Hancock being a ticking time-bomb waiting to go feral after one more bender, Curie growing up as a shut-in spending the majority of her existence in a single room running experiments, and Codsworth being a neurotic kitchen appliance more than a friend.

Most Disliked Companion: Dogmeat
Screw you and your crappy point-guzzling perk line, fleabag.

Favourite Faction: The Institute
Everyone assumes the Institute is the bad guy. In truth, it's not the Institute but the leadership that's to blame, specifically Father's leadership. The Generation 3 synth is an abject failure as a production line and should be ceased immediately. Sadly, nobody at the Institute has the power to override Father's fanatical devotion to this failed experiment, except for the Lone Wanderer. They can issue the command to halt Generation 3 production and return to improving the Generation 1 and 2 models, which show none of the inherent flaws involving free will and self-awareness. As leader of the Institute, the Lone Wanderer can unite the remaining factions under their leadership, expand the Minutemen to serve as a peacekeeping force, and most importantly turn the Synth Retention Bureau into a Ethics Oversight Bureau once Generation 3 synths are no longer being produced. Plus their skin for the X-01 power armor is wicked cool.

Most Disliked Faction: The Railroad
Already close to death, the Railroad is a one-trick pony focused on 'freeing synths' without any other plans made to benefit the Commonwealth or humanity as a whole. The Institute work tirelessly to advance humanity towards a better future, the Brotherhood seek to preserve lost knowledge and technology to rebuild the world, the Minutemen focus on helping the common man with day-to-day survival, and the Railroad... get their asses kicked for no good reason. They're already critically wounded as an organisation, reeling from heavy losses and losing safe-houses every day. They survive by virtue of having a core of exceptionally intelligent idealists and one pre-war AI that gives them an edge over their enemies, but that doesn't make for an effective group to lead the Commonwealth into a better future. Once their goal of destroying the Institute is complete, their own reason for existence is gone as well. The Railroad is a blip in history, useful for their purpose but failing to have any potential to grow into something bigger.

[Rolan7]

Nick's the best.
Dogmeat's probably mechanically the best, thanks to the perks.
BoS is both the best and worst faction.  Sinister spin on a faction that's still the best around, no one's gonna ever keep them down.

You get the impression that as the games go on the vault experiments make less and less sense?

Originally they were created to simulate the sort of conditions THEIR vaulters might experience... They were sometimes cruel or even deadly but there was something in there.

But now it just seems that Vault-Tec were just sick SOBs. (Especially after New Vegas... Which had the worst vaults in the entire series... and I am including Fallout Tactics)

Yeah possibly, though we also got a lot more information about vault experiences in 3 onward.  They became massively more common, which is sorta cool.  That's one change I'm okay with

Re: NV
I was OOC personally insulted at the existence of Vegas when I first played, so that character never went.  I just traveled and fought the Legion instead, after seeing the massacre - why would I hunt down the fop who shot me, people need my help.
I didn't finish that game (which would require visiting Vegas eventually) but was impressed at the world.  I kinda rage quit over the horrible DR system, though, which makes automatic weapons pure masochism.  Even if the enemies have a lot of bare skin (Legionnaires).

Heh technically my first character wandered north and got eaten by deathclaws.  But yeah it completely opens up after Primm.
Also, fuck cazadores.  Particularly using plasma - maddening!  Their poison is subtle yet deadly, too!

[Damiac]

Automatic weapons were garbage since FO3.  Although I think their main problem in FO3 was just their horrible, horrible accuracy.  NV had the DR stuff combined with still too inaccurate and weak auto weapons.  FO4 just resigned itself to having auto weapons just suck...

I mean... do the people making these games understand what an automatic weapon actually is?  Yes, you get slightly lower projectile velocities, resulting in slightly less damage and slightly less accuracy, but it's not because of some magic penalty system to make automatic weapons worse.  It's because some of the pressure created by the explosion of the gunpowder is used to get the next round in place to shoot, then fire it.  That's a tiny fraction of the overall energy.

Full auto weapons should require high skills to use accurately, but they should always be terrifyingly damaging, just like in FO2 (and real life). 

I guess it's just one of the symptoms of the larger problem of human enemies somehow becoming extremely bullet resistant as you go through the game.  Oh, that raider is part of a really dangerous gang, so of course his head takes 90 bullets before he dies...  In FO2 I could walk up to a high level gang member with my new character, and shoot him in the face with a shotgun at point blank range, with no skill whatsoever in shotguns, and he would die. Messily. Because it takes no skill to shoot someone in the head at point blank range, and nobody's head can take a shotgun blast.

Now, you stick that guy in power armor that's a different story.  But that's ok, then as a player I know what to expect, and it makes some sense.

[Rolan7]

I agree with most of that to some extent, but SMGs were still viable in 3.  In NV they're absolute trash, and it's specifically because of that DR system they were so proud of for some reason.

Which would be one thing if *power armor* was shrugging off blows, except that pretty much everything has some amount of damage reduction.  I get that spraying the Brotherhood of Steel or a Deathclaw with low-caliber rounds might be unwise.  But Caesar's Legion?  It ought to shred through their stupid luddite cosplay armor...  but nope.

I guess automatic weapons would be better against cazadors, but at that point I was too used to focusing on spike damage.  And for all I know they have a bunch of DR too for some reason, I mean they're already every other sort of aggravating.

There was a great perk that reduced DR for both you and enemies, but I think it was from that More Perks mod.  That's a good mod.

[Draignean]

I agree with most of that to some extent, but SMGs were still viable in 3.  In NV they're absolute trash, and it's specifically because of that DR system they were so proud of for some reason.

Well, they were proud of the DT/DR system because it was basically the same system from FO2, which wasn't easy to port over into Bethesda's sequel. Of course, by basically the same, I mean utterly stripped down and largely ineffective, but that's what you get for not having actual damage types. Bleurgh.

Automatic weapons were trash because automatic weapons were trash, not because of the DT thing. Granted, they weren't perfect in FO2; miniguns were the most annoying thing there. They would either plink someone in power armor, or instantly tear them in half on a crit, no in between.

Totally agree on a damage re-balance to automatic weapons, but I miss the DT/DR system, so I'm a bit defensive about it.

[Damiac]

The reason to use a non-automatic weapon over an automatic should be:
It's easier to use a non-automatic (less perk investment required for competency)
Slightly more powerful, slightly more accurate, this is important for long distance shooting like sniper rifles.

An automatic weapon should be the weapon of choice for anyone focusing on the appropriate weapon type.  Of course, since in FO4 automatic weapons are their own category this is a problem. Really it shouldn't work that way, it should use the basic skill (Machine pistols use pistol skill, Assault rifle uses rifle skill), etc.


Even if they want to be more gamey about it, they should at least make automatic weapons worth considering.  As it is, the moment you put an automatic receiver on a weapon, you ruin it. 

[Rolan7]

Totally agree on a damage re-balance to automatic weapons, but I miss the DT/DR system, so I'm a bit defensive about it.

Wanamingo mine kicked my ass...  I had no idea about DT/DR at the time, so those creatures just seemed absurdly tanky.
To be clear, my problem with damage threshold in NV is that they gave it to, like, everything.  Specifically that they gave it to Legionaries.  Shooting them in their exposed shins should have bypassed it

[Tack]

Plus non autos get that armor piercing perk tree

[Jimmy]

Perhaps if you want to discuss New Vegas, there should be a separate thread for it.

Auto vs. non-auto depends on your playstyle. Automatic weapons are designed to be shot from the hip, no scoped aiming required. Their perk tree focuses on this aspect, making for a character that is extremely mobile and moving constantly to avoid return fire. Non-auto and semi-automatics are more about ending combat with one or two good shots, but they're not going to be as accurate if you're shooting from the hip. It's more built for a player that engages from long range with a sniper rifle, and maybe carries a shotgun as a backup.

Personally I enjoyed using automatic weapons in Fallout 4 on my first playthrough, since more dakka is a lot of fun. Survival mode necessitates a different approach, since every bullet costs weight now, meaning you want the most bang for your buck.