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[KingofstarrySkies]

Again, the tears are delicious.

[Krevsin]

Now some of these clueless reviewers are literally saying that it's so great that FO4 is going to be more like Borderlands, and I'm just really sad and confused about that!  Guess we'll see how it turns out.

That's, uh, concerning. I mean, I enjoyed the Borderlands games, but they don't stay with me the way Fallout/Elder Scrolls games do. Can you link the review in question?

I have to admit, it would be funny if the reviewer in question just thinks we need a comparison to Borderlands to understand a game with both shooting and questing in it, the way every hard game was "like dark souls" for the past couple years.

I think it's definitely the latter, i.e. "there's no real point of reference for this, so I'll just look for the closest thing that has superficially similar elements".

[notquitethere]

Thoughts on the SPECIAL system.[snip]

This actually makes a lot of sense! Let's see if the last three stats conform to this picture.

[Flying Dice]

Let's outline the process:

1. FO4 revealed to have a system which generates weapons using sets of parts.
2. Some reviewer says, "Oh, sort of like Borderlands!"
3. "WHAAA BORDERLANDS R TEH SUX I NO BUY IF FO4 IS COPY OF BORDERLANDS"
4. kek

I'd be willing to lay money on the Borderlands comparison being related to the weapon modding/crafting system; that's exactly what it reminded me of at first glance as well.

[scriver]

Thoughts on the SPECIAL system.[snip]

This actually makes a lot of sense! Let's see if the last three stats conform to this picture.

That's not sense, that's an overly convoluted rationalization of something that it's far likelier did not have that much thought put into it.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Or had too much thought put into it and someone in the designer department decided that Charisma needed some more oomph to it.

[Krevsin]

Charisma is per tradition a dump stat. It's nice to see it be more relevant.

[Neonivek]

Charisma is per tradition a dump stat. It's nice to see it be more relevant.

Charisma has always been kind of unusual. It usually is a dump stat unless you were going for a more diplomatic game...

But then sometimes there were these charisma perks that were oddly useful that used charisma...

[Rolan7]

Yeah, plus charisma originally meant more followers.  Which lead to a great exchange in Fallout 2 where I convinced the drug geek at gunpoint to join my party, and he meekly agreed because he was a coward, but then he totally changed tone and said I didn't look strong enough to protect him or something.

So charisma provides...  Better deals, improved relations, certain unusual perks like Divine Favor (reduces PERK RATE, was only in tactics though).  Then also determines how many dudes you can bring into combat with you.  In FO3 it was relatively unimportant, but in New Vegas they did a better job of letting you talk your way through situations.

So yeah CHA was better than in many RPGs

@Borderlands stuff
Wow do I regret offhandedly mentioning that now!
I mean, this article did upset me, but comparing the game to Borderlands and other shooters with RPG elements was only part of that:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2015/06/08/the-one-feature-i-hope-fallout-4-ditches-from-the-series/

Er actually I kinda loved Borderlands, especially Borderlands 2...  It's just a totally different kind of game, or was.

They're shooters with RPG elements.  Whereas FO3 was a RPG with optional shooter elements.  Then New Vegas was a shooter with RPG elements, but at least the RPG elements were still Fallout mainstays.  Now I'm worried they're throwing out the Fallout mechanics in all but name.

[Arbinire]

Though I don't think Fallout 4 is going to be anything but superficially like Borderlands, I can kind of understand the sentiment on wanting to hold off.  The more information released about the game the less and less it sounds like an epic post-nuclear RPG, and the more and more it sounds like your above-average post-apocalyptic FPS.

[Kaje]

The more information released about the game the less and less it sounds like an epic post-nuclear RPG, and the more and more it sounds like your above-average post-apocalyptic FPS.

What? Are you for real?

Jeez.

[Rolan7]

Is there something there you disagree with?  It's exactly what I was trying to say. 

You didn't have to be a FPS gamer to enjoy Fallout 3, which made sense because it was a 3D installment of a treasured RPG franchise.  It was, despite technically being a 3D shooter, primarily an RPG.  Much like KoTOR.

New Vegas changed that entirely.  While they improved many non-combat portions of the game, and arguably improved the combat, they also *changed* the combat such that VATS was no longer sufficient in most situations.  To enjoy Fallout: New Vegas, you had to have decent FPS ability.  Even if you went with melee or shotgun-type weapons.
It fundamentally moved towards the genre of shooter, with RPG elements on the side.

Now in Fallout 4, they're...
* Potentially nerfing VATS even further, by making it not even pause.  (Though I hold hope that they'll restore the deadliness it offered in FO3)
* Replacing skills with a system of multi-level perks.  Which confirms a continuing lack of interest in the original Fallout RPG mechanics.  It's also the system used in the Borderlands franchise.  At least we still have SPECIAL, but...
* They also changed up what SPECIAL stats do what.

I'm sure they have the best intentions, but they are actively scrapping the classic RPG mechanics of the series.  This *concerns me*.  I think it's reasonable to worry that they'll continue to focus on the manual shooting portion of the game, with player skill trumping character skill.  Because New Vegas already *did* that to a large extent, and now they've even removed skills.

Not that New Vegas was bad, but Fallout 3 proved that they could make a fun 3D RPG.  I don't want it to be yet another Mass Effect or Borderlands.  (Even though those are good games, and I especially LOVE Borderlands 2)

[AoshimaMichio]

Keep in mind that Bethesda Game Studios made Fallout 3 and Obsidian made Fallout: New Vegas. Different people. And Obsidian had some of the original Fallout developers with them.

I keep hoping that final product is good RPG until proved otherwise. And none can really prove otherwise before game is released and someone completes its main quest. And posts review.

[Rolan7]

Yeah that's definitely a reason to be hopeful. We don't really know yet, I'm just worried. And even if it is another shooter, I think it'll be a good one.

[Shadowlord]

Charisma wasn't a dump stat for me, I persuaded EVERYONE. High charisma is OP. I even talked SPOILER into self-destructing in FO3.