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[Neonivek]

I don't see what the big deal is with making a perk-based skill system instead of "You must invest 25 points to use this sword, 50 points to use this chainsaw, and 75 to use this vibro-doom axe, and none of the in-between points will have any use other than to make it look like you're progressing more than you are".

Because Fallout had neither of those systems your suggesting...

To my knowledge even with 1 point in melee you could use the ultimate doom laser sword

The only problem with Skyrim's perk system is that Bethesda did a poor job of balancing it.

It... had a lot of other problems... or at least by "Poor job balancing it" you put it mildly because everything you could POSSIBLY say about balance was off.

---

But basically I see this perk system to basically be kind of dealing the final nails in the coffin of the Fallout feel on the series.

"Hey, remember when we could play the game our way?"
"Nope! Now quick! Get +50% energy weapon damage trait! and lets shoot at the boss!"
"But I have stealth"
"Just take the perk... you have to shoot the boss"

The game will be alright in the end. Still a fun game and it isn't like the game departing from the RPG feel wasn't in the game previously.

Heck people mostly complain about the RPG elements.

The days where having high science means you get more of the story is over.

[Rolan7]

I even hated the hard caps for skills in Fallout 3 and NV.  In the previous games you could keep ranking up a skill, it was just soft-capped (got more and more expensive past 100).
Skyrim was pretty fun, and maybe this will be too, but this simplification trend is bothering me.  Particularly for Fallout, because I love the SPECIAL system.

But uh, skills did have significant effects besides unlocking perks in FO3 and NV.

[Neonivek]

Well remember this is a Triple-A title now. That means that it needs to pander to people who maybe play a videogame once every month or so. The Casual market

That means in order to make the game fun for people who only play videogames casually... Casual players we will say. They need to add a few more simplifications.

By limiting your choices to a predefined path that can be easily observed it means that as a player you no longer need to think... and if you don't need to think, that means you can spend more time playing the game.

[Kot]

Everyone knows this game will be great anyways thanks to countless porn mods.

[Bohandas]

I don't see what the big deal is with making a perk-based skill system instead of "You must invest 25 points to use this sword, 50 points to use this chainsaw, and 75 to use this vibro-doom axe, and none of the in-between points will have any use other than to make it look like you're progressing more than you are".

Because Fallout had neither of those systems your suggesting...

To my knowledge even with 1 point in melee you could use the ultimate doom laser sword

You can equip it and fire it, but you need a minimum skill level to actually have the projectile go where you're pointing.

[scriver]

Wait, did that video just say Strength will be the stat requirement for crafting/modding weapons and armour?

[Neonivek]

I don't see what the big deal is with making a perk-based skill system instead of "You must invest 25 points to use this sword, 50 points to use this chainsaw, and 75 to use this vibro-doom axe, and none of the in-between points will have any use other than to make it look like you're progressing more than you are".

Because Fallout had neither of those systems your suggesting...

To my knowledge even with 1 point in melee you could use the ultimate doom laser sword

You can equip it and fire it, but you need a minimum skill level to actually have the projectile go where you're pointing.

No, you didn't need that either.

[Aseaheru]

Wait, did that video just say Strength will be the stat requirement for crafting/modding weapons and armour?

Some of them, yes.

[Bohandas]

I don't see what the big deal is with making a perk-based skill system instead of "You must invest 25 points to use this sword, 50 points to use this chainsaw, and 75 to use this vibro-doom axe, and none of the in-between points will have any use other than to make it look like you're progressing more than you are".

Because Fallout had neither of those systems your suggesting...

To my knowledge even with 1 point in melee you could use the ultimate doom laser sword

You can equip it and fire it, but you need a minimum skill level to actually have the projectile go where you're pointing.

No, you didn't need that either.

I was talking more about the guns than the sword mentioned in your example.

[Dorsidwarf]

My example was a theoretical one, since I couldn't be assed to go look up an actual example of what was mentioned earlier in the thread

[Neonivek]

I was talking more about the guns than the sword mentioned in your example.

You still didn't need a skill number to my knowledge. I might be misremembering but to my knowledge you could still use any weapon and they didn't give you huge penalties for not having a "minimum".

You still didn't want to use a Laser Gatling gun with 17 energy skill...

[scriver]

My example was a theoretical one, since I couldn't be assed to go look up an actual example of what was mentioned earlier in the thread

Your post still isn't very on point though because nobody is arguing for the F3 system in itself, just against the removal of skills. Personally I would much rather have seen a return towards the old percentile-based system it originally was.

[notquitethere]

I've just replayed fallout 1 & 2 very recently. In those, (just like in Morrowind) you have a very low (often impossible) chance to hit anything if you don't have a high enough score in the relevant combat skill. A few percentage points more in a skill translats directly into a higher hit ratio.

In this new era of fps-style 3D gaming, not being able to hit something right in front of you isn't accepted (partly because they never add dodging animation).

Skill numbers are fine for a party-based tactical roleplaying game, but for an immersive action rpg, perks make more sense.

[Bohandas]

I was talking more about the guns than the sword mentioned in your example.

You still didn't need a skill number to my knowledge. I might be misremembering but to my knowledge you could still use any weapon and they didn't give you huge penalties for not having a "minimum".

You still didn't want to use a Laser Gatling gun with 17 energy skill...

Just realized: I'm thinking of New Vegas, not Fallout 3, aren't I?

[scriver]

Possibly. I know New Vegas had what you're talking about, they had both skill requirements for "advanced" weapons as well as STR requirements for heavy weapons, iirc.