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[ShoesandHats]

Yeah, but that's always a small minority. The pretty big majority got angry over paid mods.

[KingofstarrySkies]

Which is exactly why I expect Bethesda to cancel this or tone it down massively days/weeks after it launches.

[UXLZ]

What really made me angry about the original thingwas the sheergall they had to say "Oh, we're doing it for the modders" when they were taking the lion's share of the profit. If they were like "Sure, sell your mods if you want, but we get 10%" that could be said to be there for the modders, I mean, I understand them wanting to make something from it, but... If the modders are getting 30%, and you're getting 40%, it obviously isn't "For the modders."

I wonder what sort of spin they'll give it this time, and if it'll actually be justifiable. I'll be interested in seeing what the numbers say.

Also, why must companies never be satisfied with making "Lots and lots" of money? Why do they have to make all of it? (By squeezing consumers for every last penny and paying employees the least amount possible, of course. Lord knows, Mr. Exec needs his platinum-plated toilet and matching clothes hamper. Gold is just tacky.)

[Krevsin]

Well, up to the whole "paid mods" fiasco, Bethesda has actually been pretty good about just making some money rather than all of it. They have their fallout and their elder scrolls (the massive flagship titles), but then they often release something like Dishonored which is a more "mid-sized" game in terms of production costs.

Likewise, their DLC for the last few titles (FO3, Skyrim) is very rarely egregious cosmetic stuff, or on-disk, or day 1 and usually at least tries to provide enough entertaining content to sink a couple more hours into the game.

So far, Bethesda has, at least compared to some triple A developers, been pretty good at at least appearing like they prefer to get some of the money rather than all of it. And then paid mods for Skyrim happened.

[KingofstarrySkies]

Also, as much as I hate to say this because it sounds like I'm justifying some really shitty business practices, but...

Those companies are big. Like, really big. So they do need a lot of money to fuel the engine. Especially if we want more content, which the gaming masses always will.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Also, as much as I hate to say this because it sounds like I'm justifying some really shitty business practices, but...

Those companies are big. Like, really big. So they do need a lot of money to fuel the engine. Especially if we want more content, which the gaming masses always will.

But that's dangerously short sighted if what you say is true.
Of course, a lot of gaming industry is that with the focus on fancy graphics and near exponential cost increase in making a current-gen game now.

[UXLZ]

That's understandable, but they never seem to be quite satisfied with what they have and what's sustainable. Look at at what happened with that recent Tomb Raider game, something like 1.7 million sales and they weren't happy. Also, I'm not sure if the gaming industry has these problems (might just be banking), but do the CEOs/higher level execs really need that 3 million dollar bonus payment?

Anyway, yes, the companies are big, but they have a lot of bloat. Riot's a really good example of the issue, though I'd say that a fair amount of that money goes back into server costs.

[KingofstarrySkies]

Okay, Tomb Raider was honestly a case of Square Enix being a bunch of greedy dumbfaces.

[Krevsin]

Also, as much as I hate to say this because it sounds like I'm justifying some really shitty business practices, but...

Those companies are big. Like, really big. So they do need a lot of money to fuel the engine. Especially if we want more content, which the gaming masses always will.

And thus the bubble expands.

It is an unhealthy model. Besides, you used to have a lot of mid-budget games even a couple of years ago. Nowadays, everyone in the triple A seems to either go "make it a flaghsip title with BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS OF DOLLARS" or "make it an indie on a budget of this tenner what I found in the wash one day".

it's not sustainable and as soon as a flagship project underdelivers on sales, the company gets a severe financial blow.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

And thus the bubble expands.

It is an unhealthy model. Besides, you used to have a lot of mid-budget games even a couple of years ago. Nowadays, everyone in the triple A seems to either go "make it a flaghsip title with BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS OF DOLLARS" or "make it an indie on a budget of this tenner what I found in the wash one day".

it's not sustainable and as soon as a flagship project underdelivers on sales, the company gets a severe financial blow.

I'm personally wondering at which point the industry is going to have to pull itself back as it overextended itself with its current practices.  I'm tentatively guessing mid to late this generation as graphics are being pushed fairly hard for this one.

[Krevsin]

I think after a big flagship title fails to meet their expectations commercially, they might dial down a bit. Otherwise I doubt much will happen unless a game publisher crashes and burns spectacularily.

[KingofstarrySkies]

This is why I'll always be happy to go back to older generations to play the laundry list of games that I haven't played.

For example, I never owned a PS1 and barely played anything on a PS2 (we had 50 demo disks). Last I checked, those were pretty big, so I have a few years worth of good games on those to go through. I never played much of the SNES or NES either, so I could go back to those too. By the time I get done, the XBone and PS4 will be the previous generation and I can move onto those for cheaper and without worrying about things such as these.

My friend. You have a golden generation ahead of you. PS2 era was the shit, man.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Here is the problem. I don't think any of us MIND paying for content, why the hell else would we buy games? but we come from an era where the expectation was that there was a.) a lot of content in-game, which the whole TES series is quite nefarious for not accomplishing, especially relative to what they market/the size of their game worlds, and that b.) DLC is fucking reasonably priced, and also filled with a relative amount of high-quality content. Another thing Bethesda and the TES series are fucking horrible at. The only DLC i've bought from Beth that was worth it was Shivering Isles, which was actually very well done.

[KingofstarrySkies]

Can we talk about how Shivering Isles was the best expansion pack ever created? Seriously, that shit was hilarious AND interesting. Which is good, because Cyrodiil felt incredibly...Dull.

[Trapezohedron]

Have we ever considered how much it costs to create a game at all?