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[Flying Dice]

They already had one: they knew that people were dedicated enough to fix their broken-ass games for free. If you want to look at it that way, Bethesda games are buggy and unfinished because the modding community exists. We've come full circle from modders existing because the games were broken to the games being broken because modders exist.


Paid mods just make it worse. The minute some asshole in Marketing thinks that they can get third parties to make fixes for their games at no cost to the company and then turn around and make pure profit selling those fixes to the community, do you really think they're going to back down until someone starts applying hammers to kneecaps?

@sales numbers: Yeah, seriously. We knew that wasn't accurate months ago, why is it still being cited?

[UXLZ]

Oh, ezpz, if they thought it would work 100% they'd try it. I mean, their games are always disgustingly bug-riddled shitty ui'd messes anyway, so it's not like it's a diversion from the norm.

[KingofstarrySkies]

The salt is real.

[Flying Dice]

Man, I'm still salty as shit about paid mods. It's like DLC all over again, except even more outrageous and objectionable. Next thing you know we'll have Musty Affect 3 released without the devs even bothering to write the final mission, and then a month later you are graciously given the opportunity to pay $14.99 for a shitty third-party mission that bears little relation to the plot, concludes events in a thoroughly unsatisfactory manner, and occurs entirely within a series of perfectly square corridors with low-res textures ripped from something else.

A year after that, they'll the "no seriously this time you guys" final mission mod for $29.99. You'll have to pay an extra $1.99 for each character you want to survive, and $3.99 if you want to be able to port your save over to the next game in the series, Eldar Scrawls IX: Craftworld Crossover, which will ship without a way to access your inventory or enter buildings.

[Sergarr]

I'm just waiting until the inevitable moment they start to sell patches. Or even better, subscription payment for access to patches. With 24/7 DRM that automatically uninstalls all your patches the moment you go offline.

[Krevsin]

Hurray for salty bitternes, the solution to everything.

[Retropunch]

The thing is though that they KNOW everyone is pissed. If they started to put forward paid mods for things like skyui, they'll have exactly the same problems as last time.
The only way this can work is for pure content mods, and ones that are heavily vetted/invite only. I'm never one to underestimate the stupidity of others, but I think that they'd realise that they're digging themselves a 6 foot rectangular hole if they start doing stuff like paid for patches (I'd bet there would be a few legal challenges as well).

Really though, things have started improving for the community - steam backtracked on paid mods (which we all suspected was coming) and also implemented refunds, kickstarters are being brought to court for not fulfilling their promises and developers are using 'no DLCs!!' as a selling point in their games. So it's not all terrible.

[UXLZ]

Hurray for salty bitternes, the solution to everything.

It's not salty bitterness, so much as the truth. What FD and Sergarr are sayng might be hyperbole (or is it..?) but it is definitely a fact that large corporations will stoop to basically anything if it earns them lots of money. Take cigarettes, they KNEW how harmful they were to people long before it came out to the public.

[Krevsin]

Hurray for salty bitternes, the solution to everything.

It's not salty bitterness, so much as the truth. What FD and Sergarr are sayng might be hyperbole (or is it..?) but it is definitely a fact that large corporations will stoop to basically anything if it earns them lots of money. Take cigarettes, they KNEW how harmful they were to people long before it came out to the public.

No, it is entirely salty bitternes.

It is getting riled up about an scenario several "if"s away and treating it like it is happening right now. We do not know how paid mods will be reinstalled. Anyone who claims to know otherwise based on "Corporations are stupid and like money" instead of known factors and statements is making shit up and everyone knows it. We only know that Bethesda is intending to pursue that path again. We do not know how or when.

Paid mods are a genuine concern and should be discussed. However, claiming that paid mods will not only succeed but also ruin the games industry even further and lead into absurd bollocks like paid patches is taking things too far and devalues the debate as a whole.

[UXLZ]

Anyone who claims to know otherwise based on "Corporations are stupid and like money" instead of known factors and statements is making shit up and everyone knows it. We only know that Bethesda is intending to pursue that path again. We do not know how or when.

Except "Corporations are stupid and like money" IS a known factor, because time and time again multiple corporations over multiple fields have business have shown they're willing to stoop to practically everything to make an extra few $$$s.

However, claiming that paid mods will not only succeed but also ruin the games industry even further and lead into absurd bollocks like paid patches is taking things too far and devalues the debate as a whole.

Ruin the games industry further? Yes, actually, they will, because they'll ruin the modding scene, which is [i[part[/i] of the games industry. It won't be bad and in fact I'll support it myself (if grudgingly since "give an inch, take a mile) if they decide to take the "Certain high-quality mods like Path to Elsewyr are individually selected and worked on by Bethesda in tandem with the modders to bring them up to DLC standard."
That is, actually vet their stuff properly.
If it's anything like what they attempted with Skyrim though, it'll be terrible.

Paid patches might seem like absurd bollocks, but tell me, is it really such a stretch to imagine? Of course, I doubt they'd do it on PC, since that would make pretty much everyone take up the black flag, but on the poor consoles?
See, they won't do it openly, they'll do it sneakily. They won't sell you the patch itself, they'll sell you what you need to get the patch, or have it work. Or maybe they'll take up "Premium patching". "Free patching" fixes critical game-destroying bugs, and "Premium patching" does all the rest. Hey, it's just like a bit of mod DLC.

[Krevsin]

Except "Corporations are stupid and like money" IS a known factor, because time and time again multiple corporations over multiple fields have business have shown they're willing to stoop to practically everything to make an extra few $$$s.

While corporations being stupid and liking money is a known factor, it is far from the only factor. Bethesda has tried paid mods and got burned. Expect things to change the next time around. To what extent, I do not know nor dare I predict because I do not consider myself versed enough in corporatethink.

Ruin the games industry further? Yes, actually, they will, because they'll ruin the modding scene, which is [i[part[/i] of the games industry. It won't be bad and in fact I'll support it myself (if grudgingly since "give an inch, take a mile) if they decide to take the "Certain high-quality mods like Path to Elsewyr are individually selected and worked on by Bethesda in tandem with the modders to bring them up to DLC standard."
That is, actually vet their stuff properly.
If it's anything like what they attempted with Skyrim though, it'll be terrible.

Destroying the mod community is a real threat and something that paid mods are likely to do and have almost done in the brief time they existed. However, it relies on them being a success which is far from a given.

Paid patches might seem like absurd bollocks, but tell me, is it really such a stretch to imagine? Of course, I doubt they'd do it on PC, since that would make pretty much everyone take up the black flag, but on the poor consoles?
See, they won't do it openly, they'll do it sneakily. They won't sell you the patch itself, they'll sell you what you need to get the patch, or have it work. Or maybe they'll take up "Premium patching". "Free patching" fixes critical game-destroying bugs, and "Premium patching" does all the rest. Hey, it's just like a bit of mod DLC.

You are basing your argument on conjecture. No, it is not such a strech to imagine paid patches. However, it is also not such a strech to imagine that Russia and the US will go to full-blown nuclear war tommorow.

[UXLZ]

While corporations being stupid and liking money is a known factor, it is far from the only factor. Bethesda has tried paid mods and got burned. Expect things to change the next time around. To what extent, I do not know nor dare I predict because I do not consider myself versed enough in corporatethink.

Well, yeah. Corporations might be greedy and soulless but (usually) aren't insane. Beth will try something different. Maybe we'll be lucky and it's a method that's actually good. (The vetting thing I mentioned.)

Destroying the mod community is a real threat and something that paid mods are likely to do and have almost done in the brief time they existed. However, it relies on them being a success which is far from a given.

Paid mods would never succeed on PC, but I'm honestly not so sure about console. I do think, they do that vetting thing, then they would.

You are basing your argument on conjecture. No, it is not such a strech to imagine paid patches. However, it is also not such a strech to imagine that Russia and the US will go to full-blown nuclear war tommorow.

That's probably a teensy weensy bit more of a stretch, but sure. I'm just basing what I think and expect on past and current events. Also, Risk-reward.

[Krevsin]

Well, quite.

Back on topic, has anyone found any delicious Fallout 3 mirelurk slashfiction?

[scriver]

Hurray for salty bitternes, the solution to everything.

It's not salty bitterness, so much as the truth. What FD and Sergarr are sayng might be hyperbole (or is it..?) but it is definitely a fact that large corporations will stoop to basically anything if it earns them lots of money. Take cigarettes, they KNEW how harmful they were to people long before it came out to the public.

No, it is entirely salty bitternes.

It is getting riled up about an scenario several "if"s away and treating it like it is happening right now. We do not know how paid mods will be reinstalled. Anyone who claims to know otherwise based on "Corporations are stupid and like money" instead of known factors and statements is making shit up and everyone knows it. We only know that Bethesda is intending to pursue that path again. We do not know how or when.

Paid mods are a genuine concern and should be discussed. However, claiming that paid mods will not only succeed but also ruin the games industry even further and lead into absurd bollocks like paid patches is taking things too far and devalues the debate as a whole.

So we should discuss it, but only from the perspective of the viewpoint you favour?

It is no more salty bitterness than thinking the opposite is juvenile naivete.

[Krevsin]

Hurray for salty bitternes, the solution to everything.

It's not salty bitterness, so much as the truth. What FD and Sergarr are sayng might be hyperbole (or is it..?) but it is definitely a fact that large corporations will stoop to basically anything if it earns them lots of money. Take cigarettes, they KNEW how harmful they were to people long before it came out to the public.

No, it is entirely salty bitternes.

It is getting riled up about an scenario several "if"s away and treating it like it is happening right now. We do not know how paid mods will be reinstalled. Anyone who claims to know otherwise based on "Corporations are stupid and like money" instead of known factors and statements is making shit up and everyone knows it. We only know that Bethesda is intending to pursue that path again. We do not know how or when.

Paid mods are a genuine concern and should be discussed. However, claiming that paid mods will not only succeed but also ruin the games industry even further and lead into absurd bollocks like paid patches is taking things too far and devalues the debate as a whole.

So we should discuss it, but only from the perspective of the viewpoint you favour?

It is no more salty bitterness than thinking the opposite is juvenile naivete.

No, I am saying we should discuss it without devolving into panicky statements and predictions based on a lack of information.

I am not saying we should not worry about paid mods or that everyone is wrong and that my viewpoint is the only one that is right. Feel free to express your concerns and worries, but please do not try to frame conjecture and worst case scenarios as a given.

Basically, make this an actual debate instead of wildly throwing around predictions and claiming them to be facts. Paid mods is an important topic. Treat it as such.