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[Albedo]

Most sources strongly recommend "wooden shields" over metal ones - significantly* lighter, and apparently, for shields, "lighter = better!" 

(* Wooden shields are listed in-game as weighing "< 1  Γ", while metal shields are ~10  Γ.  For comparison, most weapons weigh in at ~3-4 Γ (tho' maces are 7-9), and bronze/steel armour pieces vary from ~17-23 (breastplate, mail, legs) down to 3 or 1 (single high boot, gauntlet).)


And in keeping with that rule, feathertree shields are most recommended, or willow wood if nothing "exotic" is available.*

(* Note that alder wood is actually ~almost~ as light as willow, 20 Γ for an alder log vs. 19 for willow, compared to ~30 for most other woods. There are several more (rarer) woods that are less than willow and not much over feathertree, and several more that are just a bit over alder but still well below "generic" weight.
See: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Wood#Weight )


While a typical log weighs from 19 (Willow) to ~30*  Γ ("generic" wood), a tanned hide weighs only 2 Γ.

Both wooden and leather shields are listed in game as "< 1 Γ" in weight - but do the combat mechanics read a difference that is not shown when viewing an item? Or is  "< 1 Γ" as light as you can get, and any wood/leather really works the same?

AND - similarly to how different metals make better/worse armour*, is there a functional difference in combat between a wooden and a leather shield? Does the material "wood" block blows better than the material "leather" (or however "efficiency" might be measured in combat for a shield).

(* http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Material_science#Material_and_item_properties & http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=53571.0, among others)


So, the questions are...

1) Does the game/combat system distinguish betwee different weights "< 1 Γ"?
1b) Do different woods really matter for shield "weight" if those shields all weigh "< 1 Γ"? Are leather shields lighter still, or does it just not matter?

2) Regardless of weight, as a different material with diff DF properties, are leather shields any better/worse than wooden ones (and if so, how)?

Guesses and theorizing are welcome ~only~ if backed up by some foundation of Dwarven Science within the game mechanics - "common sense" is irrelevant here, as RL physics has no guaranteed bearing on DF physics.) 

[milo christiansen]

For shields the only thing that matters combat-wise is the shield itself, eg bucklers are worse than shields, and all shields perform equally well. The only thing the shield material effects is it's weight, and weight only matters for how encumbered you are. So for shields the material with the lowest density wins.

Leather and generic wood are (according to the wiki) equal, adamantine is just as good as feather wood (and vice versa).

[SyrusLD]

Don't dwarves ever try bashing with shields? Wouldn't that mean that, in that - and only that - case, the heaviest material would be best?

[Loud Whispers]

Don't dwarves ever try bashing with shields? Wouldn't that mean that, in that - and only that - case, the heaviest material would be best?

Yeah. Whether the loss in weight makes up for the loss in speed is another matter though. If you want a bashy-sheild, copper is the best, followed by steel. A plus side of metal shields is that when Dwarves get set on fire you're much more likely to be able to recover the shield.

[Albedo]

@ Syrus - yes, but "a bashing weapon" isn't a shield's primary function.

So, if you want to maximize offense - sure, get a copper shield (heaviest) or a steel one (hardest metal, and not ~much~ lighter).  But if you want to optimize a shield for defense - lighter is better.

The only thing the shield material effects is it's weight, and weight only matters for how encumbered you are. So for shields the material with the lowest density wins.

While I agree with all your premises, your conclusion does not ~necessarily~ follow, depending on whether or not the game makes a distinction between "very light" items.

If "< 1 Γ" is the minimum weight in the eyes of the combat system, then a glumprong wood* shield that weighs  "< 1 Γ" is identical to a feathertree shield that weighs  "< 1 Γ", and it just doesn't matter.

(* One of the heaviest woods in the game)

And that is the question I'm asking (or one of them).

Leather and generic wood are (according to the wiki) equal, adamantine is just as good as feather wood (and vice versa).

I know, I read that (and actually I helped write some of the material it's based off of) - but I'm not seeing anything that supports that other than the same unsupported(?) premises your statements are based off of. And that's why I'm asking. Could be right, but could also be a big assumption and old wives' tale.  Be nice to know for certain, one way or the other. 

[milo christiansen]

Look at the material with DFHack, yes there is is difference, even when it is not displayed. Does the difference matter? Probably not.

Adamantine and feather wood both have the same density (if I remember correctly), so items made from either weigh exactly the same. Look in the raws, material density is listed there, lower == lighter.

[Albedo]

Look at the material with DFHack, yes there is is difference, even when it is not displayed. Does the difference matter? Probably not.

So what I'm hearing is... nobody knows, but since it's easy to assume so, we will. Maybe something <<< 1 is fractionally better than something a little < 1, maybe not, but we'll pretend it is and not worry if we're wrong because it's too easy to do anyway.

Add another to the ever-growing list of things that need to be experimented with. :/

[infrequentLurker]

I suppose that if we take these assumptions to be true, Nether-Cap wood shields would be about the best in the game.  Same shield deflection bonus as other shields, light as general wood, fire safe, more available than your average cotton candy shield.  If I understood the testing arena at all or had enough understanding of/patience for fort mode to play past ~year 2, I would help !!Science!! it, but well...  yeah.

[jhxmt]

An easy(ish) way to test would presumably be to provide two equally-trained (and if possible equally-statted) dwarves with a shield apiece - one from glumprong, one from featherwood - and get them to run laps/race across identical terrain.  Any slowdown due to the difference in weight should then become visible, if it's actually have an effect despite the lack of displayed weight difference.

[Eldin00]

I believe there's a weight threshold (based on the dwarf's stats) below which dwarves aren't slowed down by the weight of the things they are wearing/carrying. If that's correct, then you'd need to give the dwarves enough identical gear that they start to slow down, then add the different shields.

[NW_Kohaku]

The game does track weights to a fraction of a Γ, it just doesn't display those weights to the player.  A coin, for example, weighs less than a Γ, but you can collect several stacks of individual coins, and see how they start to make the bag holding the coin increase in weight. 

In any event, the hypothetical savings of a fraction of a Γ are completely insignificant when compared to metal armor as to encumbrance. (Even whether you wear your pig tail socks or not matters ten times as much!)  I'd personally prefer wood, however, as if they are bashing, leather is an awful material to perform bashes with. 

Also, featherwood (100 density) is lighter than cotton candy (200 density).  (And so is candlenut, with 140 density.)

That said, shield bashes are real, and potent.  Dwarves are completely capable of killing something with a shield.  Not as well as a hammer, but it's enough that axe-and-shield can sometimes have a shield kill against something that doesn't take much edged damage.  Shield bashes also apparently train armor user, shield user, and misc. object user all at once, making double-shielders potentially useful in sparring.  Because of this, considering a steel or copper shield is not a bad idea.

[infrequentLurker]

On an ironless map, would trying to reach for Nether-Cap be a decent idea?  Seems it'd strike that fine balance of wood light, better than leather bashes, and steel grade fireproofing.

[NW_Kohaku]

On an ironless map, would trying to reach for Nether-Cap be a decent idea?  Seems it'd strike that fine balance of wood light, better than leather bashes, and steel grade fireproofing.

I've read simple copper shields are perfectly fine, and even on an ironless map, copper can easily be obtained through trading. 

I'm also not sure why you want fireproof shields if you're making them out of plain wood.  If the shield being on fire is a problem, the dwarf is probably already dying very soon, and a common wood shield is not a problem to replace.

[Skullsploder]

I can confirm from personal experience that shields of any material can block anything. Dragonfire - fine. Troll with a greataxe - fine. These are two things that would definitely destroy a wooden shield completely IRL and yet they have no effect on it in-game. So that's fine.

I am in the process of giving all my soldiers copper shields in place of their wooden ones. The reason is that I've noticed them bashing with shields about ~1/3 of the times they attack with their main weapon. Especially spear and sword users. I've seen a novice spear user stab a goblin, the spear gets stuck in the wound, speardwarf is to weak to pull it out, and then commence several pages of the speardwarf bashing the goblin in the face with his shield. Presumably this is because in this version dwarves can no longer twist weapons in the wound, which would normally be the primary attack in the case of the weapon getting stuck, so they use their shield instead.

But basically, given that at high levels of armour user equipment has no effect on encumbrance, it's worthwhile to give your guys the more potent melee weapon.

[Albedo]

But basically, given that at high levels of armour user equipment has no effect on encumbrance, it's worthwhile to give your guys the more potent melee weapon.

And the logic behind using "copper" shields is b/c it's heavier than bronze/steel? Even tho' something else might be "harder"?* (I'm guessing a silver or platinum shield would be optimal, but not normally possible to produce - ?)

(* Refer: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Weapon#Material )