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Author Topic: Mercenary Fleet OOC: 10?/10? charter members, ??/?? members. Transit 1  (Read 29208 times)

Rolepgeek

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #270 on: June 12, 2015, 01:07:35 pm »

125 ton missiles moving at 0.6C, is how, Kashyyk.

Speaking of missiles, Ross, I think the missiles cost is still messed up, at least in the OP. :P I can do some of the spreadsheet stuff if you want, ya know.
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Ross Vernal

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #271 on: June 12, 2015, 02:00:05 pm »

Well, energy weapons are expected to vaporize battlesteel at a million and a half kilometers through heavy shielding. There's some serious power behind those things in case you feel like boiling off the oceans (relatively slowly) or slagging cities, even with the atmo interfering. As far as missiles, a multi ton object at over half light speed is going to leave one fuck of an impact crater. It is entirely possible for a spaceship to commit a Class 4 Apocalypse (destruction of the biosphere) upon a planet.

There are many treaties and agreements that are in place out of mutual self interest to prevent indiscriminate, wholesale, and wanton* bombing to reduce mass casualties. When it becomes clear that the defenders' continued resistance cannot affect the outcome of the situation (like, no friendly fleet can possibly make it in time, for example) they are obligated to surrender those defenses. This doesn't mean total abject surrender, it just means the game has shifted to where they're killing each other like civilized people. If the planetary government does NOT surrender, then you are absolutely free to start blowing up major cities until the people decide to fly the white flag and lynch any politicians remaining.

There's some rules and stuff as to what a valid military target is, and what right to self defense the planet has. For example, if there were to be an Antiship Missile Launcher in Central Park, New York City is therefore a valid military target and the responsibility for civilian deaths is on the heads of the administration that decided to put in their defenses in an urban area. The Pentagon is a valid target, the White House is a valid target, a power plant providing energy for military applications is valid, etc. A demonstration strike on Baltimore would be out, blowing up factories is out, so on, so forth. If a ship is blown up near the planet and most of its wreckage slams into Los Angeles, well, that's too bad for Los Angeles.

Hypering in ships and doing a missile drive by on a planet is absolutely and totally out, and if you're on the hook for a violation of this rule, you are not protected by it.

Defenders are only supposed to fire back at valid targets, and there's some context. An assault shuttle with Marines to capture San Francisco's military bases would absolutely and unquestionably be a fair target for Fighter Jets, but one landing in Sacramento, CA that is not participating in combat and is moving to secure the city is not valid because it's basically shooting at the police. A Fighter in atmo is absolutely valid, so on. Once they land, enemy Army/Marines/etc can indeed go against them, but civilians are expected to not resist with violence, so on. Like... in theory it is absolutely legal for a hidden tank to wait for the dropshuttle to land, the first soldier to exit, and then open fire, but the surrounding city blocks are probably going to get a surprise visit from Captain Cluster Bomb in response.


* Wholesale means civilian casualties which go beyond the collateral damage associated with legitimate military operations as defined under the laws of war. Wanton means that those casualties were inflicted deliberately, or that prudent precautions to prevent them from happening were not taken. The attacker is required to take precautions to prevent "accidents," and assumes that if such an "accident" occurs anyway, then adequate precautions were not taken. Which means that even if the attacker controls near-planet space, and has summoned the planet to surrender, and elected to bombard specific, legitimate military targets, he had better make damned sure that his "legitimate" bombardment doesn't get out of hand. Presumption of guilt, not innocence.

***

The Honor is not as time sensitive. If you tell the Monarch that you need some time, the Monarch will nod in understanding and start recruiting military to occupy the planet. He'll wait for a bit, but not too long. There's other mercenaries.

The Takeover is a "If you don't move within a week or two, you'll be too late."

***

I figured both. Your personal Armsmen or Knights or whatever will have a good bonus for the purposes of combat rolls, and the other Marines will have a small bonus in combat rolls to reflect the increase in quality of tactics and leadership. I figured "Extra space is used to fit the elite units", more or less.

Yes, you can absolutely do so. If you want to use your Fighters to shuttle missiles from your civvie ships to your warships, you can do it. If you want to unload all Combat Marines and gear onto a single ship (temporarily) you can do that as well.


***

Shouldn't be. It'd been updated every single time.

Edit: OH I SEE IT WHOOPS LOL
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 02:08:56 pm by Ross Vernal »
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Ozarck

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #272 on: June 12, 2015, 02:49:28 pm »

there's still the prevention of invasion, in which we get a partially built space station as loot, though we have some Captains originating in the Alliance.

I'd think that with the planetary invasion, we'd try minimal force necessary. this is an internal, monarch to monarch situation, and not something or which the population need suffer. We're mercs, not terrorists.

so far the leading choices are: Prevent takeover and Matter of Honor. Does anyone have another choice to promote?

Rolepgeek

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #273 on: June 12, 2015, 05:23:52 pm »

Spoiler: Merope Elder Swarm (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Totals and Bonuses (click to show/hide)

So, I made a thing. Total cost of the Fleetkiller turned out to be 8338 bc, just about (with the Dragonship herself taking up about 6 trillion credits on her own), this was the Merope fleet of approximately equivalent cost. And yes, it is very, very deadly, despite being about 20 generations old. I simply view it as being the oldest and most venerable and venerated members of the formation...in the ships they used way back when. Still just as big and durable as ships nowadays, they just have some almost completely obsolete weapons. But at a certain point? When you have 400+ Merope ships coming down on you, firing shittons of those 'obsolete' weapons...it doesn't matter how good your point defense is. It can't be in two places at once. And with, what, 240% accuracy on even Interceptor Missiles? Plus ability to shred up close? And they're probably crewed by some fairly experienced Captains and Merope? You are, in a word, fucked. The Q-Ships and Carriers can carry supplies and cargo for the fleet, whether that be Marines, Cargo, or more missiles. Only way to really deal with it is to run, or force them to split up. And then force them to split up again. And again...


In any case, I vote Takeover since Honor can wait. How long would he be willing to wait? Six to eight months depending on travel time isn't too much, right? Would he be willing to repair our ships if we told him that meant we could do it faster? (like, we do the takeover, head over, tell him we can start right now if he's willing to patch us up type of thing)

And, uh, how many Marines are there likely to be defending the target?
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Ross Vernal

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #274 on: June 12, 2015, 05:59:02 pm »

One elite heavy, one elite mobile, one elite infantry, two regular infantry battalions, plus a few hundred Palace Security. Probably about twenty-five air on patrol with a lot more ready to launch on notice.

So, about 3250. 650 of them are equally equipped and has superior bonus to any but the top Marine the Fleet has; 650 are more mobile but weaker with better bonus; 650 are about on par because of their status; 1300 are inferior; and the rest are going to be glass cannons or suicide bombers. Fleet has quantity and legitimate targets for Interceptors/Fighters/Bombers to hit even after the surrender, but you are way outnumbered as far as elite troops go and there's only so much bombing you can do before you start to risk killing the hostage(s).

To be fair, you can basically consider "Marine" as "Modern day battle tank that can hover in a package larger than a human." (And no, they don't presently have a workable microcompensator to allow a shipdrive module, much less anything remotely close to a hypersail.)

Also, that's a lot of ship!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 06:04:35 pm by Ross Vernal »
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #275 on: June 12, 2015, 06:32:08 pm »

We've come a long way since Punitive Mars Expedition. I don't know if Markus having a grav hammer as his preferred weapon will still work...And yes I will be leading the assault from the ground. If Cheesecake and/or Kevak end up having a Marines bonus, I'll ask them to join me.

And by Air, do you mean a single Jet Fighter, or a flight capable marine?
In any case, taking the palace quickly and holding it will probably be a priority, if we can. Otherwise we'll have to grab high ground, set up artillery and/or take control of the air, and use precision lasers from the Supercruiser and Kai Battlecruiser. General plan at the moment is to send in the Wolfpack and Terran Marines first(to different areas, of course...) to secure some primary bases and take out anti-air, use Fighters to hot-drop the Rifter Marines into key locations to cut off enemy reinforcement paths and take munitions depots and anti-ship laser/missile launchers.

Maybe the threat of just dropping off the Kai and letting them do what they want with the planet will work...I'm guessing a Kai Marine is a predator? Oh, and side question, how cheap/expensive would Kinetic satellites be? Since we have lasers and all, and missiles accelerate themselves, but what about a kinetics satellite designed to be placed in orbit and drop relatively small, guided precision kinetic bombardment rods on targets be? Seems like it would be overall less expensive and less collateral-inducing, while still being effective against ground targets. I mean, if stuff's effective against them at all anyway, they probably can't have too much armored/shielding. And yeah, a kinetics satellite could get shot down, but that's what laser point defense and/or fighters are for. Or just making them cheap enough that it's not worth it.

Oh, and, uh, how difficult is it to recruit new Marines? I'm guessing as long as there's food and equipment, it's easy enough for the Kai, but...would the Standard, at least, be able to get some local Knights to swear fealty once their liege is toast? I dunno 'bout how the rest of you would feel about hiring on Coalition Marines, after all.
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Ross Vernal

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #276 on: June 12, 2015, 06:53:52 pm »

A fighter jet. 

I figured it was an upgraded Soldier Drone with armor and some handheld energy, while the Marines were predators, stalkers, etc. The big heavies. You'll also want a police group for the capital city outside of the "hot zone" area and major cities because there are absolutely going to be riots during the weeks to month it'll take for the friendly fleet to arrive.

I assumed that it was included in the cost of the ship, like recon drones and satellites, decoys, etc, etc. Yes, weapons for high orbital attack without accidentally wiping out a city due to a rounding error exist outside of small craft. Depends on the race and place. You can recruit replacements if you think that you can convince them to join you for a while and them not try to hijack the ship. Ask the Kai to mind read them to test their loyalty if it's not too much of an affront.

Going in person to recruit Marine and Naval personnel means possibly better quality or more quantity signing up, to be clear. NPC's are always less effective than PC's.
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Ozarck

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #277 on: June 12, 2015, 08:39:54 pm »

Would he be willing to repair our ships if we told him that meant we could do it faster? (like, we do the takeover, head over, tell him we can start right now if he's willing to patch us up type of thing)
Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhh, no. It's really bad business to ask your prospective customers to fix your shit before you work for them. You can maybe milk the Planetary CEO for repair costs. He's over a barrel, and those damages would be taken in his services. But you really can't say "well, our last contract caused us some problems. Fix those for us?" to the next guy.

Rolepgeek

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #278 on: June 12, 2015, 08:48:38 pm »

No, not like that. I mean, we say "Well, you can wait a few months so our ships can get repaired, or you can do it now and we won't ask for repairs afterwards from you. Either way, your shit gets done. Just a matter of when."

As for police force; Once the capital's subdued, the Coalition marines can take care of that. They're Coalition, so the populace should be at least a little more comfortable. Sure, they're taking your monarchy down, at least for a bit, but your monarch refused a duel, and moreover, they're not gonna hurt you. They remember being part of the Coalition. Knight-Marines are familiar. Those League buffoons? They sure don't. Alliance? Sure they're supposed to be friends, but maybe your King wasn't on good terms with them, personally. Rifters? They're just in it for the cash. Don't even bother mentioning the Kai. No, what you need is someone who understands honor. Perseverance. Loyalty.

If stuff gets really bad, then we call in the terror wasps. Rift Fighters/Marines can keep a patrol to bring in forces if needed to places that start to riot, as backup for the Coalition, and Terrans and League can make sure their military forces don't get too far with a counter-attack or anything.

For a similar reason, Markus would almost certainly be the face for that mission. Less certain on who the face is for Takeover. Maybe still Markus. He's still a noble, and knows how to talk to people (Coalition has a reputation for buffoonery, reluctance to change, and racism, but they're also known for honor, honesty, and determination). Probably would want/need assistance from Ozarck, tho, being unfamiliar with corporate policy and all. For mining, I'm fairly sure our resident Terran and League Captains would be working together for that.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 09:01:28 pm by Rolepgeek »
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Ross Vernal

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #279 on: June 12, 2015, 09:17:10 pm »

OP is updated and consolidated. Hopefully.

Since I've been offering ideas:

I would concur with who should be the visible part of the Honor raid. Same with the face. Kai are either "deploy a few higher order after most of the fighting is done as intelligence officers, staying in shuttles or out of sight" or a quiet threat that pissing off the people with a navy in orbit occupying your planet briefly is probably not a good idea. But yeah, really last resort, because it can lead to him being recognized as the armed lunatic with a swarm of pet monsters.

Three Fighters is enough to ensure that nothing can launch to space without you having a chance to blow it up, so past your anti-spacecraft patrol, you have plenty of room for quick drops.


On the Rift mission, put in a Rifter as the face, this time. I would think that enemies who show up to find a fleet with bigger ships waiting to jump them with a Rift captain sending a hail saying "There's no profit in this one, guys"  would probably lead to a few moments of "You know, we can't collect when we're dead, is this really our fight?" Or, it might utterly fail to impress them, but still, there are implications with a Rift face and from having the "real commander" not be the same in both reports.
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Ozarck

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #280 on: June 12, 2015, 09:36:13 pm »

Hey! we may be Rifters, but we understand honor. Once bought, we stay bought. Besides, we'll all be wearing Onslaught's insignia, not the insignias of the various nations o origin. To say one group of mercenaries within a company is better than another because of which nation they came from ... I mean sure, racism and nationalism and all, but they won't even be able to tell, at least amongst the human contingent.

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #281 on: June 12, 2015, 10:36:24 pm »

I should send out PM's to the rest of the folks. Get some more input.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #282 on: June 12, 2015, 10:38:14 pm »

In comparison to the Coalition? Not much. And not all Rifters only get bought once...

And oh, they'll be able to tell. You really think Coalition-style Marine armor is going to be the same as Terran-style, or Alliance, or Rifter? My Armsmen(or Knights, not sure entirely what their title would be) look like they're gigantic Knights with guns. The same is probably not true of the other factions. They all have a certain style, a theme, based on what each faction finds important or uses in it's tactics.

We'll all have the insignia, sure. But honestly? Our police are going to have to talk to them at some point, and if nothing else, they'd know then.
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Ross Vernal

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #283 on: June 12, 2015, 10:59:22 pm »

I sorta regarded Rift as being like Jacksonians from Vorkosigan, only vaguely more moral because of publicity.

Quote
Conventional morality does not appear to matter to ... power brokers. Anything and everything is for sale, if the price is right. Nothing is illegal, provided you can pay for it... The society's closest thing to a sacred institution is "The Deal": agreements, even handshake deals and verbal agreements are honored as written contracts. Skipping out on Deals was very much frowned upon, but sometimes happened nonetheless. Cheating in a Deal to the exact extent that one could get away with, however, was standard business practice.

And yeah, armor style is going to be different. The average person on the street might figure it's a mixed force under a unified command, but they will notice the difference between the League Armor, Alliance Armor, and Coalition in both shape, size, loadout, and decoration.

For some reason, I imagine that Alliance armor is a crisp navy blue with sky blue piping and tending towards explosives, while League has spaceblack armor littered with personal customization and balanced loadouts, while Coalition have frogs and epaulettes, plenty of energy weapon (possibly including laser swords because why not, right?) and step heavily from all of the added mass of armor reinforcement.

You can ignore or accept as you please, since I figure y'all will just mention what your uniforms and armors are like at some point IC.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Mercenary Fleet: Mission selection and strategizing (9/?? players)
« Reply #284 on: June 12, 2015, 11:19:42 pm »

I'm imagining Rifter equipment is very modular in design, capable of being very cost-efficient and versatile, custom and yet uniform across to every person. Probably a bit lighter too, at base, so you can add on more armor if you want to yourself.

As for Coalition, I dunno 'bout you, but I'm figuring that they've got combination laser-cannons and energy lances, as well as some powerful rear-firing booster jets. Jousting can still be a thing. And in ship corridors, which are probably fairly long...well, you need some way to get around fast when you're that heavy. Also silver, white, or tan, depending on where they hail from, probably.
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