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[Ross Vernal]

Don't be! Feedback makes the game better for everyone.

Spoiler: Spreadsheet 2, Probably Too Expensive Version (click to show/hide)

Modified. Cost goes up by 10% per tech and 10% per size. That makes some ships HIDEOUSLY EXPENSIVE, so I am not entirely sure about that.

And yes, yes you would. Hulls are cheap, components are expensive.

[Rolepgeek]

Reduce the base price, is all you really need to do. 50bc for a tech 1 small missile system is ludicrously expensive. 20bc for tech 1 base size energy and 30 or 35bc for tech 1 base size missiles seems more reasonable, no?

Also, I was mostly sorry for giving you a headache. By the way, maybe make the discrepancy in hit rates as size goes up a bit smaller? Like start at 40 for missiles and go up by 5s? As it is now...again, very little reason not to go with Huge. Which might be the point but nonetheless.

Finally, how does the ship look so far, Ross? Are the Captain bonuses good/any use? And does the Coalition defensive bonuses apply to their base defense as well?

[Ross Vernal]

Smaller cost, same scale in prices.

35   38.5   42.35   46.585
38.5   42.35   46.585   51.2435
42   46.2   50.82   55.902
45.5   50.05   55.055   60.5605
49   53.9   59.29   65.219
52.5   57.75   63.525   69.8775
56   61.6   67.76   74.536
59.5   65.45   71.995   79.1945
63   69.3   76.23   83.853
66.5   73.15   80.465   88.5115

EW with a different cost and scale.


3   3.3   3.6   3.9
6   6.6   7.2   7.8
9   9.9   10.8   11.7
12   13.2   14.4   15.6
15   16.5   18   19.5
18   19.8   21.6   23.4
21   23.1   25.2   27.3
24   26.4   28.8   31.2
27   29.7   32.4   35.1
30   33   36   39


Let's see if this is better? It's a new spreadsheet, btw, so I have all of the original values.

I believe it works, let me do a quick gym run and I'll check it in detail later. I am fairly sure that you are good, although you should specifically note that you're carrying 10% less missiles than you would with a size down.

Yes to both.

Tohit numbers mean I have to adjust EW numbers, though. xD It's not as much of a pain as all of this calculus and finding calculators to triple check my calculus.

http://planetcalc.com/981/ is one
https://www.easycalculation.com/physics/classical-physics/constant-acc-velocity.php is another
http://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1224829579 this too

[Rolepgeek]

Somehow it was still more expensive.

And uglier.

What about 30 base? At higher levels it still gets expensive enough to work I think.

I haven't taken calculus yet, I'm afraid, so I can't help ya there. I might be able to try with EW/ECW, though I'm still not entiely clear how it works.

How does Ammo cost work, by the way?

[Ozarck]

if I buy a parasite carrier, repair lab, Molylab, two corvettes and 3 supply 4s, I'll have ... we (High Tyrel and I) will have 61 bc to play with.

I'm too tired to figure the cost benefit of other items at this point. Maybe grab a fast courier for 8, add a sensor 5 for 5, 2 ew/ecw4 for 28 (for the corvettes), hold the other 20 for logistics.

[Rolepgeek]

Fast Couriers have a crapton of maintenance cost. If you want a scout, just grab an Interceptor. Use those 60bc(well, like 50bc of those 60) for outfitting your Corvettes. Keep the Fighters simple for the moment, outfit them with scavenged or purchased stuff, maybe.

[Ross Vernal]

Yeah, neither have I. I graduated without taking a single Calculus course. I'm all about Statistics.

30   33   36.3   39.93
33   36.3   39.93   43.923
36   39.6   43.56   47.916
39   42.9   47.19   51.909
42   46.2   50.82   55.902
45   49.5   54.45   59.895
48   52.8   58.08   63.888
51   56.1   61.71   67.881
54   59.4   65.34   71.874
57   62.7   68.97   75.867

By all means.

I need to work on that. New numbers: You are adding 20, 36, 40, or 50 missiles for 10, 15, 17, and 19% of the cost of your weapon. If it's base, you are adding 3bc, 4.5bc, 5.5bc, or 6bc for it.

Yes, I do realize that if I were to have a true scaling price, Small ships should cost 47bc more, Medium ships 55bc more, Large ships 60.5bc more, and Huge would 66.5bc more. I suppose I could bump it up by 20% of that figure so as to at least pretend base weapon cost is related to ship cost.

Any particular objections to this 10/11/12/13bc increase in armed ship cost to counter the 20bc decrease in weapon cost? You'll be able to afford a Large Missile 4 for slightly more than the previous cost of a Small Missile 2. It makes Fighters a bit less powerful but still a nice little ship for its price.

Spoiler: New Hypothetical Cost (click to show/hide)

12.5
12
13
28.8

36
45
40.8
51
63.75
72.8
91

113.75
138.4
173
216.25
266.4
333
153
273
363

416.25
651.2
814
1017.5
514
714

10
35
25
25
91
90
132
140
180

I'll probably get to the Combat part of Hansu versus Supercruiser later. Assuming the Supercruiser remains in accel, it will enter its 10% to-hit missile range in 15 rounds and start shooting 20 missiles a round at the Hansu.

[Rolepgeek]

I'd be fine with it, but also keep in mind only the base price went down. The higher echelons got more expensive, by about 20-25bc, thanks to the new pricing system. I'm not complaining, mind you, since this means there's a reason to get less than the bet, but just pointing it out.

Will we be able to put in/replace/strip out systems, by the way?

Although maybe increase Fighters only by 5bc?

[Ross Vernal]

I'd be fine with it, but also keep in mind only the base price went down. The higher echelons got more expensive, by about 20-25bc, thanks to the new pricing system. I'm not complaining, mind you, since this means there's a reason to get less than the bet, but just pointing it out.

Will we be able to put in/replace/strip out systems, by the way?

Although maybe increase Fighters only by 5bc?

Huge Missile 10 is 13bc more expensive; Huge Laser 14 is 23bc more expensive. I think it's live with able?

Yes. Steal weapons from your kills (assuming you have the actual ability to repair them!), capture things intact, etc. Buy new systems and put them in.

Let's run some more numbers so it's a bit less painful and so I like them more.

Spoiler: Rebalance Act 2 (click to show/hide)

7.5
7
8
24.8

31
38.75
36
45
56.25
68
85

106.25
136
170
212.5
264
330
145
265
355

412.5
729
810
1012.5
510
710

10
35
25
25
85
90
125
140
180

[Ozarck]

I was thinking of using the courier as a courier - a go-between to the customers, or fleet hq, or to coordinate between distant fleets/components. It was a luxury buy, or a logistical one, depending how you look at it.

if I buy a parasite carrier, repair lab, Molylab, two corvettes and 3 supply 4s, I'll have ... we (High Tyrel and I) will have 61 bc to play with.

I'm too tired to figure the cost benefit of other items at this point. Maybe grab a fast courier for 8, add a sensor 5 for 5 2 sensor 5 for 10, 2 ew/ecw4 for 28 2 ew/ecw 5 for 40(for the corvettes), hold the other 2011 for logistics.

Like that?

[Ross Vernal]

Fast Courier Flash
HP: 5
Captain: Wally West, Engineer
Sensors: 3
Accel/Hyper:870/Iota
Cost: 20
Luxury 1
Supplies 2

I actually had worked that one up for a sample. xD

Oh, and this:

Personal Armed Yacht VMF Astra
HP:  27.5
Captain: Commodore Count Vernal, Aristocrat (Marines +4, Weaponry +5%)
Missile/Hit/Counter: 16/25/11  (800 missiles, 1200 countermissiles)
Energy/Hit/Sidewall:  23/60/11
Sensors: 6
EW/ECW: 4.5%
Marine: 50+10 Armsmen
Accel/Hyper: 400/Eta
Supply: 1 year, 6 months
Cost: 84.5bc
Bomber Missile Armament - 5bc
Light Cruiser Energy Armament -6bc
Light Cruiser Drive 5 bc
Luxury 2 - 20bc
Rift Huge Sensor 5 - 8 bc
Rift Huge EW 4 - 15.5bc
Supplies 4 -5 bc

Nothing says "financially solvent" quite like 18 karat gold toilet seats and Old Earth whiskey, or equipping your Yacht with enough firepower to hijack a convoy.

[Ross Vernal]

I just realized I have been using the fighter/bomber space as a figure for their size. I've been thinking, "parasite carrier has 110 space, fighters are 11 space(size), ten will fit."

For carriers and ships designed to hold Small craft, this is actually exactly how you would count it. They're specifically designed for maximum storage and flexibility.

As far as yachts and Corvettes, I checked my numbers. You actually can hold two Yachts in the fighter bay of a Parasite Carrier  with, oh, about two 45' shipping containers worth of extra space (which will, inevitably, be used for alcoholic purposes.) On the other hand, you could hold one Corvette in the same space, barely. You conceivably *could* fit in a second one in, if you don't actually carry anything else whatsoever and trust your engineers to not remove something important and not mess with the profile too bad when extending the cargo hold,  but at that point you're going to take mass penalties and lose about 40g of acceleration.

That might help give you a bit of scale, actually. In terms of "space", a Corvette has a score over 120. That's significantly bigger than a Fighter.


I have personally imagined a fighter as something about 70 feet long, 12 foot high,  14 foot wide or so, with just about the size of a 40 foot shipping container left over after weapons, drive, life support, power plant, etc, etc. I reckon that's about a 26.5 space.

By comparison, a Waller would be at least size 2450. A Megafreight is about 6000.

 I'm sure someone who is better at science than I can come up with at least 2 reasons why I am wrong, but that doesn't particularly matter. *shrugs

[Kashyyk]

What does Base energy/Missiles mean?

[Ross Vernal]

Stock weapons

[Ozarck]

I'm not intending on putting the corvettes in the Carrier. They are escort ships. Glad to see I was figuring fighter size properly then.

Stock weapons

as in "your ship comes with this many missiles (or missile tubes?) and energy guns?"

I'm sure someone who is better at science than I can come up with at least 2 reasons why I am wrong, but that doesn't particularly matter. *shrugs

As long as no one tries to stick the 11 size fighter in the carrier and then stick 26.5 space items in the fighter for quantum stockpiling i think I understand the spacing arrangement well enough for a forum game though.

Some people seem to be struggling with the complexity of shipbuilding more than even I.  It is daunting. perhaps we could turn our attention to helping get them started? Maybe offering a starter pack or something, for them to modify if they like?

Also, Rolep and Ross and High Tyrel, does my last build look acceptable?
(Parasite Carrier [10+2 fighters], repair lab, molylab, 2 corvettes[2+1 fighters each] with sensors5 and ew/ecw5, three supply 4, and 11 for logistics)

If so, I'll post the numbers. Ross, you should have reserved a second post at the beginning of the thread to display the fleet ships and relevant info in.