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[Flying Dice]

That's, uh, not anywhere near a universal rule. That's just bad mods.

Great example, look at the spellpack mods for Skyrim. A couple of them are just adding back spells from older TES games and are fairly balanced (mostly due to not retaining certain spells and exploitable mechanics). A couple are well-balanced and spread across all the schools and levels of play, innovating both in mechanics and art design. A couple are god-mod packs that do absurdly broken shit.

Like, you're talking an incredibly narrow range of mods (added-content mods whose content deliberately and consistently outclasses vanilla content in similar roles) and then speaking as if it was symptomatic of a problem common to most or all mods. Added content mods aren't even the bread and butter for most games, they're little side dishes that you add on as an afterthought to stuff like combat system overhauls, crafting reworks, difficulty increases, texture packs, fan-expansions, &c.

Hell, look at the nuCOM 2 workshop. It's flooded with content addons, sure, but check the top-rated all time. The vast majority of the most popular and well-liked mods are QoL changes, expansions of incomplete vanilla content (like voices for all the nations), and a handful of well-balanced content packs (many of which are "balanced" in the sense that they're uniform cosmetics which fit with the vanilla tone). You don't even see all of the little bits of the Mass Effect conversion obsession until the second page, and I don't know how far back you'd need to look to find god-mod stuff.

[Neonivek]

Most nuCom 2 content isn't valid in this discussion.

[Flying Dice]

So what you're saying is that you're talking about a problem that you agree doesn't really exist, as far as this thread's topic is concerned?

[Neonivek]

So what you're saying is that you're talking about a problem that you agree doesn't really exist, as far as this thread's topic is concerned?

No. That is certainly not the case.

Though to admit the Longwar 2 mods before Longwar 2 had... issues... serious issues (the new monsters broke the enemy economy causing missions to be a bit too easy for example)

Just so much that the Mod Snobbery is funny. Like a bunch of people with their home movies talking about how much better their movies are then Hollywoods and how their movies are the REAL version of those tales. Yada yada yada more points more points yada yada.

I actually wonder if the Long War 2 could have survived on its own... or if it could only be as successful and popular as it is as an alternate flavor. I mean not every mod can be Pizza Flavored Pringles.

[GiglameshDespair]

Though to admit the Longwar 2 mods before Longwar 2 had... issues...

What? The long war 2 mods... before long war 2?

[Neonivek]

Though to admit the Longwar 2 mods before Longwar 2 had... issues...

What? The long war 2 mods... before long war 2?

The team put out a bunch of mods that are meant as sort of long war snippets that would later pave the way for what they introduced in The Long War 2.

I am fairly impressed by what they learned through the process and what they needed to keep and get rid of.

[Rolan7]

Yeah, there was a pack of new aliens I think?  I didn't play, but it was referenced in the LW2 Firaxis stream

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The LWPs were for new aliens, laser weapons, smgs, and officers. I quite like the alien pack, though without an actual Long War only half of them got thrown into the enemy pool by the end. The officers I forgot to use, the smgs I never saw a use for, and I decided not to try laser weapons.

I am eager to figure out how well the five-tier weapon progression compares to the three-tier.

[Chiefwaffles]

I think the main reason I don't like Long War 2 that much is the focus on stealth.

XCOM 2 is not a stealth game. Concealment is just a mechanic that lets you get the first action on the first pod, and if anything, is a bit of a gimmick. Long War 2 uses this gimmick and pushes it to unsustainable levels in my opinion, and forces you to use it or else it will punish you extremely heavily. If you get revealed before getting really close to the objective, you have the much stronger reinforcements to deal with, the stronger pods, and the shorter timers.
But I hate using it. I can't put my finger on why exactly I don't like using XCOM 2 concealment, but I just don't. It doesn't help that I'm also quite terrible at it, which means I get punished.

I've heard that the emphasis on stealth shifts away from it later in the game, so hopefully I can make it that far without permanently giving up.

[Neonivek]

The reason I don't like it personally is because it is a much longer game... but it constantly non-stops throws stuff at you. There is very little time to rest as you have to cram something into every single second or risk losing.

At least that is why I don't really play it all that much.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I think True Concealment fixes everything wrong with it pretty handily. Concealment is for the sake of ambushing the enemy, but burning turns on setting up that ambush makes the mission unwinnable. As long as you can creep around without getting fucked, the mechanic becomes what it's meant to be.

As for why Firaxis doesn't seem to understand that, I have no answer.

[Teneb]

I think True Concealment fixes everything wrong with it pretty handily. Concealment is for the sake of ambushing the enemy, but burning turns on setting up that ambush makes the mission unwinnable. As long as you can creep around without getting fucked, the mechanic becomes what it's meant to be.

As for why Firaxis doesn't seem to understand that, I have no answer.

This seems to extend to Pavonis as well, considering most missions are basically a sprint to the objective because of the timer.

[Rolan7]

I think the main reason I don't like Long War 2 that much is the focus on stealth.

XCOM 2 is not a stealth game. Concealment is just a mechanic that lets you get the first action on the first pod, and if anything, is a bit of a gimmick. Long War 2 uses this gimmick and pushes it to unsustainable levels in my opinion, and forces you to use it or else it will punish you extremely heavily. If you get revealed before getting really close to the objective, you have the much stronger reinforcements to deal with, the stronger pods, and the shorter timers.
But I hate using it. I can't put my finger on why exactly I don't like using XCOM 2 concealment, but I just don't. It doesn't help that I'm also quite terrible at it, which means I get punished.

I've heard that the emphasis on stealth shifts away from it later in the game, so hopefully I can make it that far without permanently giving up.

That's very interesting, since I *expected* a stealth game from NewCOM 2 (I daresay that is what we were marketed).  What we got is alright though (my occasional complaints aside).  So... a game in the NewCOM 2 engine, but with actual stealth, is intriguing.

I'm intimidated by LW2, though, after 1.  And after NewCOM 2.  Why can't they just make a game that offers more options, and actual stealth, but isn't pants-on-head difficult?

Like, letting countries be reclaimed in LW1.  That lets you lose some, even goes beyond OldCOM 1 in that regard!
Oh except the enemies become absurd juggernauts if you take too long.

I suppose I preferred OldCOM's "JRPG" approach, where your victory was sorta inevitable- you'd take some hits, but rarely actually lose, and eventually manage to score a killing blow against the vastly powerful enemy.
Whereas NewCOM seems insistent that you must succeed almost always, or gradually die.
Long War (1&2) fix that in some ways, and exacerbate it in others.

Edit:  Added link to what we were promised.

[Neonivek]

I think True Concealment fixes everything wrong with it pretty handily. Concealment is for the sake of ambushing the enemy, but burning turns on setting up that ambush makes the mission unwinnable. As long as you can creep around without getting fucked, the mechanic becomes what it's meant to be.

As for why Firaxis doesn't seem to understand that, I have no answer.

This seems to extend to Pavonis as well, considering most missions are basically a sprint to the objective because of the timer.

Oddly enough there is a mod that mission timers won't go down for as long as you maintain concealment.

[Egan_BW]

If you want a real turn-based stealth game in the vein of newcom, maybe you should look at Invisible, Inc.