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[Broken]

Pre.made maps wouldn't be  problem at all if they just released an usable map editor and let people make and upload their own. It would be easy to have a virtually unlimmited stock of maps in a few months.

[nenjin]

"It came down to a question of ... If we do this, if we do procedurally generated maps, they said that they were going to look like shit," Solomon says. "It wasn't going to look like any of the other games. I mean, we're not trying look better than every other game out there, but it wouldn't have even looked comparable. We would have looked like fuckin' shit."

no one knows how to make this stuff work with modern engines like Unity, UT, etc..., so they just give up and do something much simpler.

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that many modern games are using commercial engines. Back in the day, many more games wrote their own engines. It may have added development time but it gave them more control over the design of their mechanics.

Also, demand and turn around time expectations are higher (since they licensed these engines that have done all that development work for them) so it's not considered safe to try and experiment too much.

In the first game corners didn't matter as much because the game had a different perception of cover and things like hard cover simply didn't exist and chesthigh walls were only a placebo.

I don't disagree that a lot of things are different between the two game's conception of mechanics. But it honestly seems like what oldCOM attempted was way more programmatically ambitious than what nuCOM tried. And no this isn't a "nuCOM vs. oldCOM" rant, it's just an observation.

[Sean Mirrsen]

The more I see sequels to older games, that don't use the original systems, the more it makes me think that either:

a) the shit they did back then was actually really complex

or

b) the people we have in the games industry now lack the same kind of talent/vision, or, no one knows how to make this stuff work with modern engines like Unity, UT, etc..., so they just give up and do something much simpler.

Thing is. Wall and general map design was not as critical back in the day as it is in nuCom.
In the first game corners didn't matter as much because the game had a different perception of cover and things like hard cover simply didn't exist and chesthigh walls were only a placebo.

OldCOM used the same system that's being "reinvented" now. Premade map segments, patched together. Cover did exist by the way, you just had to use it manually. (try crouching behind a low rock wall or a window. You are hard to hit - in the sense that your cover is likely to be hit - and you can't fire over it unless you stand up. There are downright ridiculous issues with the system at times, like which hand you're holding the weapon in determining whether you can shoot past a corner, but on the overall emergent cover is, in my opinion, rather superior to designated cover. Silent Storm uses emergent cover as well.)

As for higher standards, I think that's rather the problem. Bugs are not the issue - as long as a developer stays around nowadays, they can patch the bugs up, and everyone can report the bugs as they see them. The game's primary qualities are independent, OpenXCOM is testament to that. I think that the standards being enforced is what keeps people with "vision" from pursuing what they want unless they have the money to burn on a potential failure. In gaming and science alike nowadays, an unknown experiment is unlikely to be sponsored.

[Sonlirain]

Yeah well the cover worked differently true but crouching behind a wall could only save you from a near hit.
if an alien has a 50% chance to hit you he will hit you. Near hits deviate slightely and might hit a soldier in the head of legs and those miss if the soldiers is crouching behind cover.
However accurate shots will still hit and cover gives a minimal benefit by defending you from near misses.
Its still not nearly as good as hunkering behind cover in nuCom.

[Nick K]

The original XCOM had a bug that resulted in difficulty being reset to beginner past the first level. Such a thing would never work now.

This makes it especially amusing that XCOM:EU named the difficulty level after normal "classic".

[Remalle]

On a different note, what do y'all think the mysterious fifth class might be?  Possible candidates in my mind (in descending order of likeliness): Pyro, Hacker, Engineer, Medic.  I would love to see the glorious return of the pyro, personally, especially with fully destructible terrain.
Also, I had a realization that the Viper is fulfilling the exact same role as the Reaper was set to during development of Enemy Unknown.  I wonder what changed.

[Digital Hellhound]

Ooh, I hadn't even thought of Hacker. I doubt it'll be that, but some kind of hacking would be cool - hacking cameras could play into the stealth aspect, security systems to turn them against those damn alien-lovers, drones, SHIV-successors. Maybe on a strategic level, too, to get intel and advantages when going against the ADVENT.

[Sonlirain]

I'm betting on human alien hybrids.
They wouldn't make tehat class secret unless it was something big.

My bet is hybrids that can either be psi users or lumbering MEC tanks... just without the suit.

[Teneb]

Ooh, I hadn't even thought of Hacker. I doubt it'll be that, but some kind of hacking would be cool - hacking cameras could play into the stealth aspect, security systems to turn them against those damn alien-lovers, drones, SHIV-successors. Maybe on a strategic level, too, to get intel and advantages when going against the ADVENT.

I think that would fit best with the new support class, since they can control a drone already. But I do think that the fifth class will probably focus on stealth.

[Quartz_Mace]

I don't think alien hybrids are going to be a class, actually. I think because they'll be a species you could have a hybrid who was a ranger as a class, but still mainly used for psionic abilities. That's just a guess, though.

Unless they make a specific psi-trooper, in which case that might be it.

[Shadowlord]

On a different note, what do y'all think the mysterious fifth class might be?  Possible candidates in my mind (in descending order of likeliness): Pyro, Hacker, Engineer, Medic.  I would love to see the glorious return of the pyro, personally, especially with fully destructible terrain.
Also, I had a realization that the Viper is fulfilling the exact same role as the Reaper was set to during development of Enemy Unknown.  I wonder what changed.

Are you just listing off TF2 classes (or, in the case of the spy, their equivalent)?

Obviously the fifth class is Claptrap.

[EnigmaticHat]

On a different note, what do y'all think the mysterious fifth class might be?  Possible candidates in my mind (in descending order of likeliness): Pyro, Hacker, Engineer, Medic.  I would love to see the glorious return of the pyro, personally, especially with fully destructible terrain.
Also, I had a realization that the Viper is fulfilling the exact same role as the Reaper was set to during development of Enemy Unknown.  I wonder what changed.

I feel like most of those ideas could/should be rolled into support to make it more interesting.

Pyro could be fun.  Super terroristy tho.

[Shadowlord]

Pyro could be fun.  Super terroristy tho.

I dunno, we had flamethrowers in WWII.

Of course, we also had saturation bombing and firebombing in WWII, essentially the wholesale destruction of entire cities.

I think what I'm saying is that I probably shouldn't say "That couldn't possibly be terroristy, we used it in World War II."

[Puzzlemaker]

Ooh, I hadn't even thought of Hacker. I doubt it'll be that, but some kind of hacking would be cool - hacking cameras could play into the stealth aspect, security systems to turn them against those damn alien-lovers, drones, SHIV-successors. Maybe on a strategic level, too, to get intel and advantages when going against the ADVENT.

I think that would fit best with the new support class, since they can control a drone already. But I do think that the fifth class will probably focus on stealth.

I thought ranger was the stealth class?

Also, my vote is for a psionic-based class.

[Zangi]

On a different note, what do y'all think the mysterious fifth class might be?  Possible candidates in my mind (in descending order of likeliness): Pyro, Hacker, Engineer, Medic.  I would love to see the glorious return of the pyro, personally, especially with fully destructible terrain.
Also, I had a realization that the Viper is fulfilling the exact same role as the Reaper was set to during development of Enemy Unknown.  I wonder what changed.

I feel like most of those ideas could/should be rolled into support to make it more interesting.

Pyro could be fun.  Super terroristy tho.

Terrorism is fineIt is not terrorism if you are only killing aliums and their sympathizersthem dirty traitors.  Plus, I like my incendiary ammo firing auto-cannons.  Pyro stuff could be rolled in with the heavy weapons.