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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Also, this isn't a debate or a conversation. Dismissed.

Please do not restart this shitstorm in my thread, again, two days before the game comes out.

Nah. It's a pretty big deal, and obviously was well-funded. If it's good, I'll have a great time. If it isn't, I'll flame it at every chance across the internet for being another failed X-Com attempt.

Also, I can easily refund the game. No harm done.

As someone who didn't stay blind to the game's development cycle, it does not meet your stated criteria of being an "X-Com game". Since you've declared this a hardline, you really are wasting your time if you decide to get it.

Regardless, wherever else you flame it across the internet, do not make it this thread. It's come within lock range before due to people doing so.

[Aklyon]

They hired them to make three mods, not Long War 2: War Longer. They showed them off at the pax panel linked above, and are basically mini-mod additions. One for new weapon types, one for new enemy types, one for leadership perks.

[Krevsin]

Unless there's a demo or something, it's going to be another session of "pirate, then see if buy". >_>

A friend of mind said the same thing, though it's complicated a bit by Long War - from what I can recall, nobody ever got the mod working on pirated XCOM 1

Untrue. It is fiddly, but not impossible to get Long War running on a pirated EW. Pirates are persistent little buggers like that. grumble grumble most antipiracy measures are stupid and only serve to harm the people who legally buy the games grumble

[ZebioLizard2]

To distract from the *oh gods 3 more days* (because I am excited for this, even though the gameplay is nothing like OldCOM)

Can anyone suggest games where...  I dunno, there's a living world where stuff happens dynamically not directly related to the player's goals?
I'm mostly thinking of XCOM Apocalypse, of course.  Where the gangs are essentially play a very different game than the player, and all the factions can dynamically go to war with each other based on stuff like collateral damage.
Syndicate was an early example people think of, though it was mostly an illusion - people drove around and wandered the city, but they weren't actually doing anything.  It was just revolutionary at the time.
In Magic Carpet, though, the villagers would rebuild and even expand across the map (as you cleared areas of monsters, or made walkable paths).  With their own (pathetic) armies, and always at risk of necromantic infection, and it was neat to see.

Stuff like that used to be sorta common I think.  But the only modern example that comes to mind is Crusader Kings 2 (and Europa Universalis I assume).  There seem to be few games willing to properly simulate anything not directly related to the player.  (Millenaire mod for Minecraft helps)

The Last Federation, you are basically playing as a ship with goals while everyone is literally playing a 4X game, you could even wait and watch how things end up if you wanted.

[Rolan7]

TotalBiscuit's "WTF is..." review provides some nice insights. I like that basebuilding is less formulaic than before, seeing as you don't have the pressure of satellite coverage on you.

He also mentioned that the game has performance issues, which is really not filling me with confidence here.
Unless there's a demo or something, it's going to be another session of "pirate, then see if buy". >_>

Well I mean, it's on Steam.  So there is a "demo" of sorts, just ask for the refund at the end.

@The Last Federation
Oh okay, I've been meaning to check that out thanks!  Did sound rather unusual, which I guess is what I'm looking for

[scrdest]

To distract from the *oh gods 3 more days* (because I am excited for this, even though the gameplay is nothing like OldCOM)

Can anyone suggest games where...  I dunno, there's a living world where stuff happens dynamically not directly related to the player's goals?
I'm mostly thinking of XCOM Apocalypse, of course.  Where the gangs are essentially play a very different game than the player, and all the factions can dynamically go to war with each other based on stuff like collateral damage.
Syndicate was an early example people think of, though it was mostly an illusion - people drove around and wandered the city, but they weren't actually doing anything.  It was just revolutionary at the time.
In Magic Carpet, though, the villagers would rebuild and even expand across the map (as you cleared areas of monsters, or made walkable paths).  With their own (pathetic) armies, and always at risk of necromantic infection, and it was neat to see.

Stuff like that used to be sorta common I think.  But the only modern example that comes to mind is Crusader Kings 2 (and Europa Universalis I assume).  There seem to be few games willing to properly simulate anything not directly related to the player.  (Millenaire mod for Minecraft helps)

It's been pretty difficult to simulate, and now that there are tools to do so it's pretty difficult to *contain*. Oblivion and STALKER both originally used NPC AI which was in a lot of ways like that, and they both wound up being gimped by necessity:

Oblivion because the unrestrained decision-making process was hilariously alien in its values, so, for example, an NPC being repeatedly woken up by their dog wound up *fireballing* the pooch, or a pair of NPCs who had goals A and B assigned requiring tools, but the A tool was given to the NPC with the B goal and vice versa fighting a duel to death over the tools instead of, y'know, trading. Meanwhile STALKER's NPCs on original AI were so smart they would *beat the game* before the PC would.

What springs to mind example-wise would be Mount & Blade, although the system is quite basic, and in a VERY rudimentary and borderline way, Sid Meier's Covert Action (kinda fails the 'not related to the player's goals' criterion, although a) that game was released in 19-fricking-90, b) it's mostly because your goal is to stop whatever they're doing).

[umiman]

To distract from the *oh gods 3 more days* (because I am excited for this, even though the gameplay is nothing like OldCOM)

Can anyone suggest games where...  I dunno, there's a living world where stuff happens dynamically not directly related to the player's goals?
I'm mostly thinking of XCOM Apocalypse, of course.  Where the gangs are essentially play a very different game than the player, and all the factions can dynamically go to war with each other based on stuff like collateral damage.
Syndicate was an early example people think of, though it was mostly an illusion - people drove around and wandered the city, but they weren't actually doing anything.  It was just revolutionary at the time.
In Magic Carpet, though, the villagers would rebuild and even expand across the map (as you cleared areas of monsters, or made walkable paths).  With their own (pathetic) armies, and always at risk of necromantic infection, and it was neat to see.

Stuff like that used to be sorta common I think.  But the only modern example that comes to mind is Crusader Kings 2 (and Europa Universalis I assume).  There seem to be few games willing to properly simulate anything not directly related to the player.  (Millenaire mod for Minecraft helps)

Hmm...

I heard about this game, can't remember the name sorry but I think it has something to do with building castles or dungeons or something like that.

Anyway, you literally have to start every game by simulating the entire history of the world as well as hundreds of thousands / millions of people living in it. It's pretty crazy. And they do all sorts of cool shit which you can read about. It used to be after you simulated everything, that's about as far as the natural simulation went but now things continue happening after you start playing too.

But yeah, you can either be an adventurer where you run around doing random stuff like throwing stones at children or whatever or you could run that castle / dungeon / fortress and have people come to you while you manage them.

It's pretty cool but a bit hard to get into. I'll try to remember the name at some point but you'll probably find it if you google search Fortress or Dwarf or something like that.

[Sean Mirrsen]

To distract from the *oh gods 3 more days* (because I am excited for this, even though the gameplay is nothing like OldCOM)

Can anyone suggest games where...  I dunno, there's a living world where stuff happens dynamically not directly related to the player's goals?
I'm mostly thinking of XCOM Apocalypse, of course.  Where the gangs are essentially play a very different game than the player, and all the factions can dynamically go to war with each other based on stuff like collateral damage.
Syndicate was an early example people think of, though it was mostly an illusion - people drove around and wandered the city, but they weren't actually doing anything.  It was just revolutionary at the time.
In Magic Carpet, though, the villagers would rebuild and even expand across the map (as you cleared areas of monsters, or made walkable paths).  With their own (pathetic) armies, and always at risk of necromantic infection, and it was neat to see.

Stuff like that used to be sorta common I think.  But the only modern example that comes to mind is Crusader Kings 2 (and Europa Universalis I assume).  There seem to be few games willing to properly simulate anything not directly related to the player.  (Millenaire mod for Minecraft helps)

It depends on how dated and weird a game you're prepared to play. If you don't mind a fair amount of both, there's Space Rangers 2. The entire game's universe goes along regardless of the player's actions, NPC rangers do their things (and can buy items from shops that you've been eyeing), NPC traders trade and influence supply and demand, NPC militaries assemble strike forces and defense fleets. On Easy difficulty, the NPCs might even defeat the main antagonist(s) without the player's help. It's possible to play the entire game as a trade runner, just making loads of cash and winning the game by sponsoring construction of new military bases and attack fleets.

[Majestic7]

It's pretty cool but a bit hard to get into. I'll try to remember the name at some point but you'll probably find it if you google search Fortress or Dwarf or something like that.

I think you are talking about Elf Keep. It is a total ripoff of Minecraft though.

[Kruniac]

For me, the main problem with the remake was the 'You see the enemies, they suddenly scamper into covered positions' thing, as it lost the squad-based, 'cover each other' feel of the original, in my opinion. That and the 6 soldiers thing - 14 was a bit much, sure, but there was something really cool about slowly losing troops one or two at a time as your expansion throughout the city block went a bit awry. And as you rounded on the last building with just 3 or 4 of your crappiest rookies left... Ah, good times.

Heck, the number of deaths themselves. In a game of old X-Com, it wasn't uncommon for me to have 100 dead soldiers on my memorial wall as I approached the end. My first game in XCOM (Classic Ironman), I think I finished it with maybe 6 or 8 dead soldiers.

This. Looking past the simplistic design choices made in the cover system, lack of an inventory, and lack of freedom in your base selection/engagements, this really burns me.

I wouldn't have a problem with the game at all if they would just include OPTIONS to deal with these issues. However, they don't. You can't prevent aliens from getting a free interrupt when you spot them (I mean, you can turn on the option where they sometimes shoot, but again, that's not solving the issue of the free interrupt). You can't edge closer and keep covering each other (Which is how an actual squad operates), and that really detracts from the tactical squad-based aspect of the game.

What we got was a puzzle game or something. See the alien. Alien goes into cover. Figure out how to kill them. See more aliens. Aliens go into cover. Figure out how to deal with them. It's carrot and stick game design, which is endemic in the modern gaming industry. Gone is the chaos of having three people die off of the dropship, which was immersive as hell. It gave a feeling of an actual firefight (as best as it can for the genre), and to not have that in a tactical game is heresy.

BUT ANYWAY.

We'll see pretty soon. I have my pitchfork and torch ready, and I also have my schedule planned to get all of my work done ahead of time so I can X-Com all week. All I can do is wait for the download.

Unrelated - just lost a squad in Aftermath. Ugh, that stings.

[Aklyon]

It's pretty cool but a bit hard to get into. I'll try to remember the name at some point but you'll probably find it if you google search Fortress or Dwarf or something like that.

I think you are talking about Elf Keep. It is a total ripoff of Minecraft though.

Nah, its gotta be Kobold Kastle.

[XhAPPYSLApX]

For me, the main problem with the remake was the 'You see the enemies, they suddenly scamper into covered positions' thing, as it lost the squad-based, 'cover each other' feel of the original, in my opinion. That and the 6 soldiers thing - 14 was a bit much, sure, but there was something really cool about slowly losing troops one or two at a time as your expansion throughout the city block went a bit awry. And as you rounded on the last building with just 3 or 4 of your crappiest rookies left... Ah, good times.

Heck, the number of deaths themselves. In a game of old X-Com, it wasn't uncommon for me to have 100 dead soldiers on my memorial wall as I approached the end. My first game in XCOM (Classic Ironman), I think I finished it with maybe 6 or 8 dead soldiers.

This. Looking past the simplistic design choices made in the cover system, lack of an inventory, and lack of freedom in your base selection/engagements, this really burns me.

I wouldn't have a problem with the game at all if they would just include OPTIONS to deal with these issues. However, they don't. You can't prevent aliens from getting a free interrupt when you spot them (I mean, you can turn on the option where they sometimes shoot, but again, that's not solving the issue of the free interrupt). You can't edge closer and keep covering each other (Which is how an actual squad operates), and that really detracts from the tactical squad-based aspect of the game.

What we got was a puzzle game or something. See the alien. Alien goes into cover. Figure out how to kill them. See more aliens. Aliens go into cover. Figure out how to deal with them. It's carrot and stick game design, which is endemic in the modern gaming industry. Gone is the chaos of having three people die off of the dropship, which was immersive as hell. It gave a feeling of an actual firefight (as best as it can for the genre), and to not have that in a tactical game is heresy.

BUT ANYWAY.

We'll see pretty soon. I have my pitchfork and torch ready, and I also have my schedule planned to get all of my work done ahead of time so I can X-Com all week. All I can do is wait for the download.

Unrelated - just lost a squad in Aftermath. Ugh, that stings.

I actually agree with you on the immersion front, and I do love playing the original.

But on the account of the fact that it takes little over say, 15 minutes to get ONE turn done in the original (I may be exaggerating a bit) whereas you can get 2 or 3 done within that amount of time in the remake.

I would say that the remake is better in many ways, though it has it's faults, such as over-simplification and the aforementioned problem with aliens going to cover as soon as you see them, it has real moments of epicness, intensity, and many others like fear and dread. I do feel these in the original, but the problem in that game is the fact that you can have like 20 rookies in one mission. That right there gets rid of the fear and dread to me, if one dies, oh well, I got 19 more. Hell, even if half them die it'd still be pretty good assurance that you'll win the mission as long as you play a bit better.

But in the remake, you only have 4 (or 6) for EVERY mission. You build better stories and relations to them, and if they die, that's one huge ass chunk gone from the team. Sure, it may not make total sense in the long run to only be able to fit 4 or 6 people in a dropship at once. But, at least in my opinion, it helps fulfill the momentous dread and fear a bit better.

But that's just my opinion

EDIT: Also, having to count a bunch of numbers before you can MOVE is a pretty lame design choice in my opinion, also deminishes the fun to be had to me. I like to be able to move without having to number crunch.

[Krevsin]

For me, the main problem with the remake was the 'You see the enemies, they suddenly scamper into covered positions' thing, as it lost the squad-based, 'cover each other' feel of the original, in my opinion. That and the 6 soldiers thing - 14 was a bit much, sure, but there was something really cool about slowly losing troops one or two at a time as your expansion throughout the city block went a bit awry. And as you rounded on the last building with just 3 or 4 of your crappiest rookies left... Ah, good times.

Heck, the number of deaths themselves. In a game of old X-Com, it wasn't uncommon for me to have 100 dead soldiers on my memorial wall as I approached the end. My first game in XCOM (Classic Ironman), I think I finished it with maybe 6 or 8 dead soldiers.

This. Looking past the simplistic design choices made in the cover system, lack of an inventory, and lack of freedom in your base selection/engagements, this really burns me.

I wouldn't have a problem with the game at all if they would just include OPTIONS to deal with these issues. However, they don't. You can't prevent aliens from getting a free interrupt when you spot them (I mean, you can turn on the option where they sometimes shoot, but again, that's not solving the issue of the free interrupt). You can't edge closer and keep covering each other (Which is how an actual squad operates), and that really detracts from the tactical squad-based aspect of the game.

What we got was a puzzle game or something. See the alien. Alien goes into cover. Figure out how to kill them. See more aliens. Aliens go into cover. Figure out how to deal with them. It's carrot and stick game design, which is endemic in the modern gaming industry. Gone is the chaos of having three people die off of the dropship, which was immersive as hell. It gave a feeling of an actual firefight (as best as it can for the genre), and to not have that in a tactical game is heresy.

BUT ANYWAY.

We'll see pretty soon. I have my pitchfork and torch ready, and I also have my schedule planned to get all of my work done ahead of time so I can X-Com all week. All I can do is wait for the download.

Unrelated - just lost a squad in Aftermath. Ugh, that stings.

Truthfully, your unabashed fury at having been forced to buy, nay, pre-order a game which is built on the very same foundation and gameplay as the one you seem to loathe so is truly righteous, just and noble.

Curse those foul developers and their cunning ploys to keep all the information on the mechanics tightly under wraps until such a time that your decision has already been made and the vile deed of pre-order done.

Woe is you for falling for their clever tricks and ruses once more. If only there was a way you could've avoided this disaster entirely. If only you could have foreseen this tragic twist of fate in XCOM 2's development which led it astray from the true path and onto the accursed ways of its predecessor. Truly tragic is its return to those abhorrent plains of its predecessor and verily, it has been unforeseeable that such a turn of events would transpire. Foul are the developer's claims of it being nothing but a return to the glory days of X-Com and all its ways and despicable are their marketing tricks to portray it as such.

Indeed, your only remaining course of action and the only hope for a just retribution remain in telling the rest of the world of the burning hatred of everything nuCom and the fact that your hand has been forced into pre-ordering the sequel.

[Rolan7]

noooo don't fight

He already said he'll get a refund if he doesn't like it, it's cool that he's giving it a try

[Lightningfalcon]

As a heads up, release hour is now up on steam.

GMG is sending the keys out later today according to their Twitter.

Where does it say that? Looking at their twitter I can't find that at all