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[Graknorke]

How's that pessimistic? If anything it'd be optimistic, expecting something pretty important that's been planned for months as part of the game to actually be core content. An entire class as an afterthought? Really?

Ninjad: My issue is with things being DLC that should be part of the base game. See: The Sims 2 onward.

[My Name is Immaterial]

How's that pessimistic? If anything it'd be optimistic, expecting something pretty important that's been planned for months as part of the game to actually be core content. An entire class as an afterthought? Really?

Ninjad: My issue is with things being DLC that should be part of the base game. See: The Sims 2 onward.

We don't even know what the DLC class is right now. For all we know, it could be aliums, and that would be something I'd rather not have in the base game, because it really throws off the tone.

[BFEL]

OH LORD

Watching the Beaglerush stream, he encountered a group of like 12 advent troopers just hanging out boxed on top of a monument. In the first mission. Hilarity.

[Jacob/Lee]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Sonlirain]

How's that pessimistic? If anything it'd be optimistic, expecting something pretty important that's been planned for months as part of the game to actually be core content. An entire class as an afterthought? Really?

Ninjad: My issue is with things being DLC that should be part of the base game. See: The Sims 2 onward.

You have to keep in mind things like time and money. Making a new class costs both and they are almost certain the game will be a success.
They didn't know if the game will be liked enough to warrant an expansion but it was a smash hit so the pulled their things together and released Enemy Within for some extra bucks.

Now they are guaranteed good sales they can go ahead and sell season passes for the DLC that is 99% sure to come later. (the new class is going to be released in summer).
Basically they might as well not announce any DLC and release "Shens last gift" expansion pack (notice that i'm talking about all announced DLCs rolled into 1 expansion pack) that would include a new alien hunting mechanic a new class and more customization options for a low price of 30$.

Or you can just go ahead and get it now for 20$ because people like being paid up front.

[umiman]

I feel sad. Everyone ignored me when I said it wasn't day 1 DLC a few pages back.

[GiglameshDespair]

I feel sad. Everyone ignored me when I said it wasn't day 1 DLC a few pages back.

I... didn't notice you at all.
I'm sorrrrryyyyy

[Graknorke]

You have to keep in mind things like time and money. Making a new class costs both

Yes I know. They've had this planned since at least September, or whatever month it was the Steam page went up. And they've been actively developing since then too. I find it hard to believe that they couldn't fit in something of relatively little work (assuming they don't have to rebalance the entire game, which they won't or else they wouldn't want to make it DLC) compared to the thousands of manhours put into the game already, but which has such a big impact on how the game plays as another class, where there were only 5 before and in a game where being able to distribute roles via specialisation is a key part of the tactical element.
And if it's not because they can't, it's because they don't want to. It's a cynical move on the fact that XCOM fans will buy XCOM 2, and the hype is far too strong for it not to sell.

[Dansmithers]

Nice title.

[RAM]

The problem, to me, is not that they are releasing it as additional-payment content when it is already planned. That can be justified with a simple, "we have a game that is good enough, and we are getting out earlier then we would have otherwise". What bothers me is that it is obscuring the cost. This is not an additional campaign or such as with Terror from the Deep where it was a separate game to be experienced separately. This is an expanded experience of the original game, "old game plus" if you will. The expectation here is that many people will be purchasing the additional content, and discussing the additional content, and anyone without it will feel that what they are using is missing components. This will create pressure for additional people to purchase the additional content and I very much doubt that there is any sense to which this is unintentional. Basically, the "real game" is the game with all of the D.L.C. and as such the "real price" is the same, but people will look at the basic price and think "I can get the game for that amount". Certainly, there are far worse business practises in the world, but it is not exactly polite...

[Sonlirain]

And if it's not because they can't, it's because they don't want to. It's a cynical move on the fact that XCOM fans will buy XCOM 2, and the hype is far too strong for it not to sell.

That's AAA development for you. The best we can hope for is that they don't release "Vahlen's gambit" in a year adding another class (Meld troopers) and a few new aliens (actually old aliens from EU that escaped her personal alien zoo).

Fact is they want ALL the money.
An expansion pack was pretty much assured. Also the time gap between the base games release (February) and the expansion (sometime in summer) means the DLC is probably not even close to finished and will likely be still in the makings after release.
The real scummy practices are when the DLC is already on the disc or game files from day one but you need to pay for it extra (Mass Pffect 3 and the entire Prothean debacle comes to mind where the DLC appeared to be very story significant)

[Rolan7]

Ah, DLC discussions.  I'm going to pick on Sonlirain because they posted last.

And if it's not because they can't, it's because they don't want to. It's a cynical move on the fact that XCOM fans will buy XCOM 2, and the hype is far too strong for it not to sell.

That's AAA development for you. The best we can hope for is that they don't release "Vahlen's gambit" in a year adding another class (Meld troopers) and a few new aliens (actually old aliens from EU that escaped her personal alien zoo).

You're describing Enemy Within on purpose, right?  I'm confused because I thought most people agreed that that was a good expansion.
Anyway, I was happy to pay more money for the additional content.  Like upgrading a burger to a cheeseburger, or adding guacomole to a burrito.  There's nothing cynical about this, development costs time and money.

Fact is they want ALL the money.

Of course, they're a business.  They're also a group of developers who want to keep making games, which involves making money.  If they make more money on the project they like, they get to continue improving and expanding on it.  It's not just greed.

Edit:  I was recently in a big discussion about Bullfrog, who went out of business.  They made great games, but they didn't make enough money, and thus we have no Dungeon Keeper 3.  Instead we have a shitty mobile travesty produced by the company that's really good at making money.  I'd rather Bullfrog was still around.

An expansion pack was pretty much assured. Also the time gap between the base games release (February) and the expansion (sometime in summer) means the DLC is probably not even close to finished and will likely be still in the makings after release.

Sounds about right.  I dunno if you're implying this is a problem, seems fine to me though.

The real scummy practices are when the DLC is already on the disc or game files from day one but you need to pay for it extra (Mass Pffect 3 and the entire Prothean debacle comes to mind where the DLC appeared to be very story significant)

Okay this is what set me off a little, to be honest   Not you, but just that idea.
Saying that on-disc DLC is scummy is like saying the guys at the sandwich shop are assholes for charging for pickles.  The pickles are right there!  Why don't they just give out the pickles?
"No it's different because they don't have infinite pickles".  BS.  A bunch of pickles get thrown out, wasted every day.  But if they give out the pickles for free, they can't justify buying the pickles in the first place.  And if they increase the base price of the sandwich, they're overcharging the people who don't want the pickles.

DLC gives players control over how much they want to pay for extra content.  It being on the disc is absolutely irrelevant.  Sorry, pet peeve

[Sonlirain]

Ah, DLC discussions.  I'm going to pick on Sonlirain because they posted last.

Funny you picked me because i was pretty much explaining the same thing to Graknorke

Yes i was comparing it to Enemy Within. yes it was a good expansion and i thought it was ok to compare it with the season pass because the content seems to be pretty much the same deal.
- 1 new class (Likely Mecs or some kind of advanced self learning SHIV)
- New mechanic (Alien hunting)

The main difference between them is that EW was made in the aftermath of EUs success and the planned DLC is... preplanned because Xcom2 is already a guaranteed success.

As for scummy on disc DLC.
First - It's a misuse of the term because you don't download jack. It's jsut some of the already complete content sliced off and sold as an extra. There is a difference if you order a hamburger and decide to buy "cheese DLC" to upgrade it and buying a cheeseburger and learning that you have to pay for the cheese extra because the last chapter of the game is behind a paywall. (Seriously those fucking Protheans being a somewhat expensive day 1 DLC pissed off many a fan)

[RAM]

I would rather not have to carry the pickles out to the picnic and then fall out and rot because I didn't pay for them but the deli secretly put pickles in all sandwiches because they were lazy and just rigged them to fall out if they aren't paid for. I mean, sure, legally they can provide the product in any state they like(well, I guess it needs to be functional, and parts of the product that is received for payment are explicitly non-functional and there is probably a somewhat legitimate argument buried in there somewhere but I don't care at the moment.) but if you happen to find out about the pickle, and then notice it just rotting away, it seems appropriate to be irritated, and it is understandable(though I for one wouldn't find it justifiable) that some people might sneak the pickle into their sandwich if they think that nobody will notice... So I would say that people are entitled to complain, it is legitimately irritating, and I suspect that not complaining about prolonged irritation is some sort of mental health risk factor or something that could potentially have a financial value attributed to it...

But mostly I am mildly annoyed that they are predicting that all the people will go off onto the internet and talk about how delicious the pickles are and when someone shows up asking where the pickles are and then someone is bound to say "You got it without pickles? Can it even be called a sandwich at that point?" and because everyone is still eating the same basic sandwich but some people have these extra pickles then it will be really apparent that the pickle is missing. I mean, if the sandwiches had no pickles but the sausage-inna-bun had pickles then it would be like "yeah, I think that pickles make the sausage-inna-bun better, but the original pickle-free experience of the sandwich has its own merits from its simplicity and it wouldn't be the same if you threw pickles into it. With it working in this fashion, the pickles seem more like something that is missing from the sandwich than something that can be added to it. I feel that this is an intentional effort to advertise the price-tag of the pickle-free sandwich while expecting the majority of people to feel that they need to pay extra for the pickles. So it is sort of false advertising, but only by implication, not technicality, so technically it is a non-issue, but the implication is rather unsettling. But hey, it is no different to putting in a price-tag of .99 instead of 1.00. Truly horrific if you actually consider the implications, but accepted practice so nobody cares...

And really, E.W. would have been better with a different overall objective. You may have new toys, and some of the side-missions are interesting, but you will have two people playing exactly the same mission and one has a bunch of options that the other doesn't and you have to wonder, was the original version of the mission missing something?

P.S.
 I didn't see this mentioned...
 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs3acGYgI1-si_JrbPkTSC5SLllhTZQPA

[Shadowlord]

*skims last  few posts couple pages*

Apparently this is sandwich complaints thread now. The pickles are in the fridge. So's the cheese. You can add them yourself.