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[Dibujor]

Aaaand again, some more tiles. This time I've been doing some more weapons (man, those are fun to make), cabinets, table and chair and weapon racks (yeah, plural. See? I tend to do a lot of variants of some things...)

Spoiler: Original size and 2x Zoom (click to show/hide)

Well, I think it's time now that I start to think on working with a bit more... organization. Meaning to pick one of the multiple "sets" a graphic pack needs (text, graphic, races, creatures...etc) and make the tiles for it from start to finish.

I will be using Gemset raws and tiles as a template, as I intend to do a graphic set as complete as possible. I already spoke with DragondePlatino and he gave me permission. He has done the hard part and an amazing job that I think will mark a before and after in doing graphic sets for DF (which has been made possible thanks to mifki and TWBT) and has a lot more knowledge than me on the modding part. I'm just a graphics guy and a newly arrived to the game at that, and have a lot to learn.

[Max™]

Yeah, but there's no actual 32x32 tileset that I can smack my tiles into. I'm afraid my habilities "hacking" DF at the moment are limited to replace tiles into an already made tileset and some minor tweaks here and there. That's what I do with the sets I'm making for spacefox.

Spoiler: transparent sir henry's 32x32 (click to show/hide)

There ya go.

[Button]

PTW.

Have you decided yet if you're going to release this as a tileset, or do what DragondePlatino's doing and focus on overrides?

[Dibujor]

Actually I was preparing another post to ask some questions about organization because I think I don't fully understand the difference. 

I mean, I know DragondePlatino has kept Gemset basic tileset as ASCII,  and a separate one for text,  and then he overrides everything over that. That works for Gemset because of the black background, readability  and clear design,  etc. That's Gemset design philosophy and ASCII don't clash on it as in other more realistic tileset.

With "as a tileset" you mean including graphical tiles in the basic set apart from also doing the overrides?   

Is there any reason not to? I want to also have the map with graphics so I guess for that you need to include the tiles for the map on the basic set and then override all the other stuff? 

Oh, perhaps you mean releasing  a tileset that can function without that?.  DragondePlatino doesn't want Gemset altered into a tileset because the experience wouldn't  be the same he worked for. 

In my case I didn't even think of it, (perhaps because as I said I don't fully understand the difference) I suppose if people would want that...  Is just a matter of rearranging the tiles I'll have.  Though you'd be missing things.

Or maybe you mean something completely different and I don't know what I'm talking about. 

[Button]

Tilesets vs Overrides: A Beginner's Guide

A Tileset is, essentially, a font. All graphics except for creature graphics are contained within an altered version of code page 437, also known as those pink rectangles with white font you've seen everywhere.

Benefits of Tilesets:
* Makes your graphics set available to people who can't, or don't want to, use TWBT.
* When the game is updated, you only have to update your tileset, and usually not by much. This makes it much easier to maintain.

Drawbacks of Tilesets:
* Creative constraints. Each tile may have multiple different hard-coded uses in the game, and your graphics need to be reasonably representative of each of those uses.
* Graphics and text must share space in the tileset.

Neutral:
* Creature graphics will work with either system.

Overrides are graphics that DFHack's Text Will Be Text plugin overlays onto the game. Where to overlay is identified quite specifically, so you can have separate graphics for, say, every different kind of weapon, even when they're lying on the ground. You could have different graphics for each kind of fruit, even, if you wanted to go to the trouble (hint: you don't.)

Overrides coexist with a graphics tileset, a separate text tileset, and creature graphics. Some tiles cannot be overridden, and will display with the graphics tileset instead. For example, arrows in flight cannot be overridden, buildings cannot be overridden (though this will be changing soon), and hauled items cannot be overridden.

Benefits of Overrides:
* Not limited to the single rectangle of graphics and far less bound by graphics needing to be shared by different items/for different purposes. This allows greater creative freedom & much more specific graphics.
* Even for things that can't be overridden, the fact that so many things can be overridden, and that text doesn't need to maintain its readability, means that you have a lot more space on the graphics tileset to differentiate the elements of your "font" from each other.

Drawbacks of Overrides:
* Completely reliant on DFHack & TWBT; when updated versions of these aren't available, your graphics will be useless. After a major release DFHack is out of commission for at least a month. After minor releases, it's usually less than a week.
* When new items are added to the game, you need to add new overrides for pretty much every new item to keep your graphics set looking consistent.

Neutral:
* Creature graphics will work with either system.


Personally, I prefer not to use TWBT when playing fortress mode, so I'm kind of hoping you'll choose to do tileset? But, you know, you do you .

[DragonDePlatino]

Tilesets vs Overrides: A Guide for Those with OCD

Benefits of Tilesets:
* no

Benefits of Overrides:
* yes

XD But in all due seriousness, man...You can mix and match overrides however you want to save time. For example, in GemSet I created separate overrides for trees, tracks and walls which all use the line-drawing characters. This is not necessary, though, if you want to avoid conflicts. You can create overrides for trees and tracks, then add just the walls to your tileset. As long as you get rid of the conflicts with overrides, it is safe to edit the tileset.

I just...didn't...because...I'm weird like that.

[Vanst7]

Aaaand again, some more tiles. This time I've been doing some more weapons (man, those are fun to make), cabinets, table and chair and weapon racks (yeah, plural. See? I tend to do a lot of variants of some things...)

Spoiler: Original size and 2x Zoom (click to show/hide)

Well, I think it's time now that I start to think on working with a bit more... organization. Meaning to pick one of the multiple "sets" a graphic pack needs (text, graphic, races, creatures...etc) and make the tiles for it from start to finish.

I will be using Gemset raws and tiles as a template, as I intend to do a graphic set as complete as possible. I already spoke with DragondePlatino and he gave me permission. He has done the hard part and an amazing job that I think will mark a before and after in doing graphic sets for DF (which has been made possible thanks to mifki and TWBT) and has a lot more knowledge than me on the modding part. I'm just a graphics guy and a newly arrived to the game at that, and have a lot to learn.

<3

[Dibujor]

So, I had my facts more or less right. I'm in the same boat as DragondePlatino here in that I don't see real benefits on going tileset vs overrides. The drawbacks of the overrides are not just for the graphics. I mean, major releases DFHack being out of order for a month... is not the graphics that will hold back people from updating, but the fact that dfhack is so neccessary that people won't update anyways until it's ready (unless you prefer Vanilla DF, that is. In that case you won't even be using tilesets in the first place).

HOWEVER, as I said, I'm not against releasing a tileset version for those like you that don't want to use twbt (don't know why but hey, everyone has their taste). Compared to the amount of work of drawing the tiles and putting all together (even with DragondePlatino's work I bet we'll differ in some decisions), making a tileset version is just a matter of rearranging some tiles into a basic set. When all is said and done, with pyxel edit that should be a matter of minutes... ok, a bit more, but not much work anyways. So you can have that

Tilesets vs Overrides: A Guide for Those with OCD

XD But in all due seriousness, man...You can mix and match overrides however you want to save time. For example, in GemSet I created separate overrides for trees, tracks and walls which all use the line-drawing characters. This is not necessary, though, if you want to avoid conflicts. You can create overrides for trees and tracks, then add just the walls to your tileset. As long as you get rid of the conflicts with overrides, it is safe to edit the tileset.

I just...didn't...because...I'm weird like that.

I guess that's directed to my comment of using the basic tileset for map tiles right?. I thought world generation doesn't make use of overrides so it takes it's tiles from the basic one (the graphic, not the text one). That's why I thought of using the basic one for the map and then override all the rest. May be wrong though

I don't think I'll be making use of any ASCII or line drawing characters, as a "realistic" tileset wouldn't make much sense falling back to ASCII tiles would it?

Spoiler: transparent sir henry's 32x32 (click to show/hide)

There ya go.

Thanks!

[Meph]

Making a tileset version would limit you heavily, considering that you have <256 tiles for everything, while Twbt as several thousand override options.

[mifki]

Once I figure out why this thing keeps crashing...



Dibujor, are you planning to try making any multitile workshops, so that I can try them with my new version (it wasn't possible to override builtin workshops before)?

P.S. See different background behind some of the furniture? It's not a glitch, it just a floor that hasn't been smoothed. You can't smooth/engrave if there's a building already, but we never noticed this because we didn't see. Now you'll need to make sure you do all that before placing buildings.

[Dibujor]

Making a tileset version would limit you heavily, considering that you have <256 tiles for everything, while Twbt as several thousand override options.

Yep, that's why I don't get why anyone wouldn't want to use twbt but... to each his/her own.
I know, right?. Two weeks ago I haven't made any pixel art and now I've drawn several hundred tiles....

Once I figure out why this thing keeps crashing...

Spoiler: Screenshot (click to show/hide)

Dibujor, are you planning to try making any multitile workshops, so that I can try them with my new version (it wasn't possible to override builtin workshops before)?

P.S. See different background behind some of the furniture? It's not a glitch, it just a floor that hasn't been smoothed. You can't smooth/engrave if there's a building already, but we never noticed this because we didn't see. Now you'll need to make sure you do all that before placing buildings.

That looks pretty good!, If I may say so myself, thanks for that screenshot. I think I can bump the contrast a notch but it looks pretty good. I'm relieved then, I'll make an adjustment pass once I have complete sets.

Absolutely,  once Meph mentioned the possibility of having multitile buildings I knew I have to do it (once we have multitile creatures.... man, a big giant or dragon....). You mean as in overridin the 9 tiles for all workshops?. You want me to draw one so you can try it? Any workshop in particular?

So now transparency works properly and I don't have to include that ugly semitransparent black backgound in every tile? (as in that cat, dwarves...)

[mifki]

That looks pretty good!, If I may say so myself, thanks for that screenshot. I think I can bump the contrast a notch but it looks pretty good. I'm relieved then, I'll make an adjustment pass once I have complete sets.

Absolutely,  once Meph mentioned the possibility of having multitile buildings I knew I have to do it (once we have multitile creatures.... man, a big giant or dragon....). You mean as in overridin the 9 tiles for all workshops?. You want me to draw one so you can try it? Any workshop in particular?

So now transparency works properly and I don't have to include that ugly semitransparent black backgound in every tile? (as in that cat, dwarves...)

Here's an example of non-grayscale tile


Yes, that would be great, any workshop(s) you like, a single 96x96px image per workshop.

Transparency is a new feature in development, I don't know when it will be ready, but that's where we're heading. You shouldn't rely on it for now.

[Dibujor]

Hmmm, that doesn't look that great but at least you can see there are some different materials going on. I guess it will depend on the color of the material you use for the objects.

Ok then, I'll try some workshops, let's see what I can do.

May I ask if you have that resized complete spacefox available to try my tiles?

[Rose]

These are looking swell.

With all these 2D enhancements, I really need to step up my game with Armok Vision.

[mifki]

May I ask if you have that resized complete spacefox available to try my tiles?

I didn't resize anything, you can always execute "twbt tilesize 32 32", your additional tilesets you load from overrides.txt don't have to be of the same size as the main tileset.