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Author Topic: Training medics  (Read 1141 times)

Dragoon508

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Training medics
« on: May 29, 2015, 02:14:36 am »

Is there a way to train up doctors without having them train on injured dwarves? So far I have not gotten any doctors in my migrant waves so I have pressed in a doctor from what I do have, but I would like to have him trained a bit more than dabbling
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Training medics
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2015, 03:14:40 am »

No, you're stuck with on the job training.
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Training medics
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2015, 03:28:09 am »

IMHO medic skills are overrated. Most minor wounds cuts, broken bones, bad bruising, loss of one limb or so) can be treated well enough by a very low skill medic. A dorf that is wounded more than a broken limb or two is often going to be killed by what wounded them, or die before getting to hospital. Even if they are treated, chances are they will not really return to full operational status. Sure, it is nice to have high skill medics, but by no means essential.
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Dragoon508

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Re: Training medics
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2015, 04:05:05 am »

IMHO medic skills are overrated. Most minor wounds cuts, broken bones, bad bruising, loss of one limb or so) can be treated well enough by a very low skill medic. A dorf that is wounded more than a broken limb or two is often going to be killed by what wounded them, or die before getting to hospital. Even if they are treated, chances are they will not really return to full operational status. Sure, it is nice to have high skill medics, but by no means essential.

That is true, although if you got a legendary axeman who has to retire from active service, it would still be nice to have him alive so he could be appointed champion and pass his skills down to a younger generation.

I wonder if the new scholar profession will have medical books that medic dwarves can read to gain skills.
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Arx

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Re: Training medics
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2015, 05:01:50 am »

Yeah, my experience with medicine is that untrained dwarves are relatively okay at it. It would be nice if you could have a full-time training medical corps or something, in the same way as the military, though.
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Niddhoger

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Re: Training medics
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2015, 05:20:13 am »

Well.... how much do you hate your dorfs? You can "accidently" make your fort a more dangerous place... say meeting halls over bridges over pits.  The odd repeating spike in the dormitories missfire.  Cavern beasties mysteriously breaking out of their cages in the middle of the dining room.... you know, just saying.  Crap happens and all >)

This would increase the demand for your doctor's and give them some much needed on-the-job training.  Lead/platinum floors in your barracks and live training 1v1 wrestling matches against trolls help too. 
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synyster31

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Re: Training medics
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2015, 06:51:47 am »

I'd like to see there being a risk of your medical dwarves causing more harm to their patients if they are unskilled or very low skilled. Then the more they skill up the risk decreases. This would add a bit more importance to medical skills.

Also, do skills affect recovery time?
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Mushroo

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Re: Training medics
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2015, 09:45:55 am »

dabbling medics + soap > legendary medics + no soap

source: casual anecdotal observation
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Niddhoger

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Re: Training medics
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2015, 01:45:11 pm »

dabbling medics + soap > legendary medics + no soap

source: casual anecdotal observation

Infections are indeed serious business! Even minor scratches can fell a dorf a season or two later without soap on hand.  Personally, I take ~10-20 units of lye with me at embark.  I butcher the pack animals for fat and whip up a couple years worth of soap while a miner is carving out rooms.  This way, I will always have soap on hand and won't have to worry about it until my fort is mature enough for it not to be a problem. 

Make sure your cistern isn't muddy, salty, or stagnant! Make them at least two z-levels deep. 
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Albedo

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Re: Training medics
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2015, 03:05:15 pm »

  I butcher the pack animals for fat and whip up a couple years worth of soap while a miner is carving out rooms.  This way, I will always have soap on hand and won't have to worry about it until my fort is mature enough for it not to be a problem. 

Oil can also be used to make soap, doesn't ~have~ to be "tallow". Almost(?) all forts will have a few extra Rock Nuts lying around (from processed Quarry Bushes) - press those and you've got what you need, if you want to keep your pack animals for breeding/etc.


Quote
Make sure your cistern isn't muddy, salty, or stagnant! Make them at least two z-levels deep.

Water purification can usually be handled by a single pump on momentary duty - just pumping the water thru does the job, doesn't have to cycle continuously.
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Dragoon508

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Re: Training medics
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2015, 10:27:58 pm »

You can make your cistern non muddy I have learned by just smoothing the floor, so it is easy to do in that regard.
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Niddhoger

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Re: Training medics
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2015, 06:25:45 am »

I never said you would cycle the water continuously.  If the water isn't pure, I build an input cistern that then pumps (single pump, one way) into the "pure" one for hospital/bathing use.  Sometimes i have to rely on stagnant pools or salt water, afterall.

Why would I even consider keeping a male buffalo that I can neither milk nor shear for seasons before getting one from the elves.  What if the elves can't get one (biome restriction), or there aren't even any elves? Honestly holding onto your pack animals is a silly waste of resources.  The grazers are too large (HUGE pasture sizes for a breeding population, if you can get one) and they are never shearable.  So why breed bison and buffalo when I can breed more manageable sheep that double as textile production?  Best thing to do with them is quickly butcher for a massive amount of "starter" food and some bones to make armor with (or xbow+bolts) or just to craft/decorate with for first caravan.  Its about 30-50 food an animal depending on size.  Even with using some tallow to ensure I start with soap, its more than enough food for your starter fortress (roughly a year's worth unless you get massive early migrant waves).  You can focus more on setting up your fort than QUICK FARMS NAO! If you can't gather any berries/veggies to quickly brew and didn't bring something to brew/extra booze, I suppose you'll still need to plant a small patch though. 

The main point of this is that the animals are just a burden.  You -might- get a female milkable animal you can make a couple units of cheese from a year, but you'll have to pasture them above ground or pierce the caverns and pasture below.  You can't breed them until you get more either, which usually means hoping your caravan (its from the same biome as you and brings animals) brings one of these AND its of the opposite sex.  Then you wait for -years- trying to establish a breeding population from just two animals.  This is waiting for paint to dry to gain sustainable food... by the time you can even get a proper breeding population out of the pack animals (5+ years with getting multiple animals from caravan) your fort is long established and mature enough to have long ago established enough farms, fisheries, hunting/trapping operations.  Furthermore, they can't produce textiles.  The only reason I put up with sheep (or lama/alpaca) is that they also produce textiles.  Otherwise, you can use non-grazing birds (turkey) or even crocodiles to massively outstrip food production from other livestock with a fraction of the space.  Pigs aren't grazers either.  All that time and consideration to -maybe- benefit from the livestock long past when you need to anymore.  It just isn't worth the 60-100 meat/fat+bones/leather you can instantly game to jumpstart the fort.  I don't bring the oil/extra seeds to press either, because this would create even more work (build a screwpess and jugs at embark) and cost more points.  The animals are one of the few free things you get.  No matter what you do, you will always be forced to start with 2 random pack animals... which i see as food+bone+soap.  Since I always start with -free- pack animals, and I always butcher them, then I always have tallow sitting there waiting to be used.  So I bring cheap 2 point lye and make soap.  So even if a dorf stubs his toe, I got soap at embark making sure it doesn't get infected. 
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