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[delphonso]

Wouldn't satyrs have cloves, though?

Not if you nail them in place with a horseshoe.

[scriver]

On second thought there's probably nothing stopping one from making shoes for cloves. " You can't put shoes on cloves, only hooves" is probably not the smartest assumption I've made

[Maximum Spin]

I didn't even know anyone called cloven hooves "cloves". Where I'm from they're just a kind of hooves.

[Cthulhu]

Would a satyr even need shoes?  Like I've never seen somebody shoe a goat, or even a cow.  Is a humanoid who's not carrying people or dragging heavy loads actually going to need shoes?

Centaurs would, but I figure yeah, they'd use hipposandals or some fantasy equivalent rather than something nailed on.

[Rolan7]

That's true, goats seem to get by just fine shoeless in very rough, rocky terrain. A satyr is focusing the weight on two cloves though, particularly carrying equipment (mine had little but still). That's why my reasoning was that a forest fey wouldn't require shoes, and required no explanation.

Wearing the magic boots was the real stretch, but that's why he had to pay for modifications!

[Cthulhu]

I mean wild horses also range across hard rocky soil without problems.  They evolved for sparse arid plains.  I'm changing my stance from the previous post on centaurs, actually.  Horses need shoes because they evolved for specific climates and stresses and domestication presents them with completely different challenges their hooves aren't adapted to handle.  Centaurs evolved or were created as centaurs, so presumably their hooves are adapted for the kinds of stresses they experience, and thus they wouldn't need horseshoes unless you really like the idea and decide that your setting's god created them with horse-adapted hooves.

[Kagus]

Was just thinking about potential Eldritch Adept cheese again (mostly in the sense of how much fun an assassin with Many Faces could be... Agent 47 mode!), when I got a bit sidetracked and ended up poking something else instead.

Namely, Bugbear Arcane Trickster. If you pick up a feat at level 4, you can take Fighting Initiate and grab your 10' blindsight for the sake of "seeing" through that fog cloud (and, much later, darkness) you're throwing down. Bugbear lets you rock an extra 5' reach when making attacks on your turn, so you can stab right out of the fogbank at the edge of your blindsight and boop someone who most likely can't see/notice you yet and doesn't even need to be disengaged from so you can hide/stab/do something else with your bonus action instead if you like.


Actually, come to think of it, let's revisit our face-shifting assassin for a moment...

Variant human (or I guess Tasha's custom lineage thingy, but I haven't read up on that) Genielock 1/Assassin 3. Assassin 3 is as lovely as it ever is, advantage on any creature that hasn't taken a turn in combat yet (so even if you don't get advantage from surprising someone by stabbing them in the guise of their friend, you still get advantage and therefore sneak attack since they haven't taken a "turn in combat"... The RAW here is a bit odd, frankly), and every hit on a surprised enemy counts as a crit. Should be reasonable to argue that taking someone else's face and poking from within the ranks could count as "surprising" enough for the purposes of the condition.

Genielock 1, among other things we'll discuss later, gives you some really nice (and scaling!) bang for your buck with just a 1-level dip. Once per turn deal Proficiency Bonus worth of damage on an attack (just in case we weren't already doing a stupid amount on that first stab, or if you get stuck in a more drawn-out fight), and you get an absolutely priceless escape route by way of the genie's vessel, which you can stay inside for a number of hours equal to twice your PB. As if that weren't enough, you can still hear the area around where the object is lying in the real world while you're inside.

Both of these things scale with PB and not Warlock level, something that makes this a really potent dip. And the utility value of hiding in a tiny, seemingly mundane item, for an infiltration expert assassin is simply incredible. The fact that you're extra deadly when hitting stuff is just bonus.


Now comes the choice between Variant Human Genielock 1 and taking Eldritch Adept to get this combo online at PC level 4, or if you want to take Genielock 2 in order to get an extra invocation, spell slot, and free up race selection while pushing the combo wombo-ness out to level 5 (and reducing sneak attack progression by 1 level).

Personally, I think it comes down to level range... If you're lucky to get level 4, obviously go with the fast-and-dirty version. If you've got more levels to play with, I feel like the extra spell slot and invocation can add some great utility to this monster. Heck, if you decide to opt for a Marid patron, you'll even get Fog Cloud to cast with those slots!


So now we've got an incredibly evasive death-dealing agent who can:

• Disguise themselves as another person at will
• Sneak attack crit for massive damage++
• Vanish into a tiny object for hours at a time (the ring is particularly broken, slip it onto the finger of a dead guard and hop inside!)
• Use a short-rest spell slots on things like Fog Cloud, Hex or Protection vs. Evil
• Choose not to stress about CHA, or pump it for all manner of cross-class usefulness
• Boost their melee attacks even more with Booming Blade if they like
• (Genielock 2) Another invocation for things like Devil Sight, Misty Images, Armor of Shadows, all manner of nonsense

Not exactly the most optimal in a throw-down fight, but send them on an infiltration mission of death and chaos and they'll be completely in their element. Terrifyingly so.

[Egan_BW]

There is a bit of a problem with playing an infiltration focused player in DnD though. At your best, you're probably doing things away from the rest of the party which they can either not interact with or interfere with by being big dumb barbarians, paladins, and evokers. At worst, you have nothing to do because the GM didn't anticipate what kind of character you'd be bringing and all the challenges have more to do with killing big dumb monsters in straight fights.

You could make it as an NPC, but that also has a problem in that your players won't see what your cool character build can do, because said character is being sneaky and staying out of their notice.


So it's pretty much not worth it unless you're playing an entire infiltration-themed campaign. Hmmmm.
A Hitman campaign would probably be fun.

[Kagus]

Yup, that is the issue... But for the times when splitting the party is actually viable and you need an agent to go mess things up while the rest of the gang handles something else, that's pretty nice!

[MrRoboto75]

A Hitman campaign would probably be fun.

"Oh god, the bard showed up dressed as a clown and he's armed with a fish"

Actually it's kind of a shame the secret agent genre of roleplaying games died so long ago with Top Secret.

[Egan_BW]

I have a feat which doubles my sneak attack damage using any weapon that contains fruit, such as a banana or blueberry muffin.

[Jimmy]

"You silently creep up from behind and attack the eldritch tentacle horror with your banana! Double penetration sneak attack!"

[Mephisto]

Actually it's kind of a shame the secret agent genre of roleplaying games died so long ago with Top Secret.

Hey now, Classified and White Lies are both seemingly well-regarded (though they're 5-6 years old at this point).

There's also the obligatory GURPS.

[Loud Whispers]

So far in this campaign of my m8s, I've played a sea-monster hunter (on a land based campaign) who was real salt of the earth with a slight undercurrent of menacing (Moby Dick themed character), who was infamous for scrawling everywhere "Ichabod was here." Followed up by ultra-wholesome front-line banner carrier (to offset the moral ambiguity of the other party chars) / #1 cheerleader of the Earth god Nolyth: Cayetan Carota, the Fortunate Centaur, who stacked endless rerolls and nevertheless was retconned from existence by a beholder's disintegration ray. Really buggered that one up!

Now that the other party chars have moved from moral ambiguity towards moral goodness, I decided to roll up an actual villain character. One of the player characters is a human Paladin that is the reincarnation of an ancient human Paladin. It started off as a stupid joke idea, and after two years I realised with grim certainty that his character - Dr. Klaus, was genuinely a Santa Claus parody. A year ago I even said his character seemed like a demented Krampus and he had to bite his tongue on just how accurate that call was.

Anyways, Krampus here had a fun little gimmick where any time he saw an Elf there was a small chance he'd roll to attack them. This happened once, and never again, but we kept getting little snippets of deepest Klaus lore here and there over the two years. We were all convinced that Klaus was a little demon Krampus but eventually between myself, the player and the DM, we all had accrued a whole bunch of lore about Klaus which turned him from a joke character into a piece of a wider epic fantasy puzzle. Amusingly, all three of us don't know what the others know and won't spoil it out of character, which leads to a real prisoner's dilemma where between the three of us the full story exists but no one person has it. The gist I know is that Klaus fought an ancient war against the snow elves, which ended in the complete destruction of the snow elves owing to the general dickery of the elven king and the general ruthlessness of the human-dwarven alliance. Klaus also tried to save the elves, so it gets complicated.

Given that the party is in an isolated tundra town full of only undead and cultists, any new character I'd have to introduce would be from one of those two camps. Cultists were vetoed by DM, so it was undead! And the DM and I both discussed the idea of making an undead character old enough to know this Klaus in his previous life. Whilst working it out with the other players, I ended up taking what was a joke character and entered into a strange mood. Perhaps the effort of having to continuously add ć with tildes activated some Tolkein brain but my joke of a "Britney the Banshee" char ended up evolving into serious char

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Brittineć here being pronounced the same as Brittinor. I had to consult with all of my players beforehand in order to introduce such a wonky character; the Paladin Klaus is going to have to carry Brittineć's coffin around if they are to ever leave the mansion (he agreed, guilty that he helped exterminate her entire race of snow elves in a past life). The half-elf player and I came up with an idea that would help him deflect in-character blame for getting the party's most beloved char killed and would allow my char to look beyond their disgust at half-elves. The wizard player Drack would likely horrify Brittineć as back in her time human wizards were rare and the magic system wizards are using with spell slots and words did not exist in her time, looking like vulgar magic - but these differences could no doubt be smoothed over if Brittineć showed the wizard where the mansion wine cellar was.

All in all, got everything set up for a fun character debut. Went all out on the theme too; everything revolves around hellish hounds, loud screeching, spookiness or madness. I think subconsciously I'm giving up on stealth and subtlety to fit in with the way the party usually does things (my first char was stealthy and climby, my second was loud and four hooved legs do not a climber make, this char fights by making loud screams heard in a 300ft radius). Really leaning on the banshee/revenant/ghostly huntsman theme to get that good aesthetic.

Using playable ethereal banshee was pretty weird balance wise, so I suggested to my DM that though she was ethereal, she can do what her cognitive dissonance will allow. E.g. weapons will pass through her, but she believes weapons will harm her which damages her hold on reality, to explain why she's taking damage from normal weapons despite being ethereal. She could pass through walls or locked boxes, but doesn't, because she doesn't think she's a ghost. Also gave her a 95% carry capacity reduction just to hammer in the whole "spooky polterghost" vibe. So despite being a skilled archer, lockpicker or hunter, I don't think she's strong enough to carry most weapons or kits anymore unless she grabs a mage hand or something.

I'm also bloody terrible because I always advise my new players to keep backgrounds simple, but then you just get into a strange mood and accidentally write an epic as a backstory

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Kagus]

Hey, who wants some Gun Crossbow Kata?

Variant Human Battlemaster 4

Archery fighting style

Trip Attack maneuver

Crossbow expert feat

Sharpshooter feat


Despite the name, Trip Attack says that it's used on a "weapon attack" rather than specifically a melee weapon attack, unlike some of the other maneuvers. As such, forcing a strength save to not fall prone via a hand crossbow bolt is perfectly fine, RAW.

So what you do is walk up to someone, pop them with your xbow and use Trip Attack, they fall down, and you can use your bonus action via XBE to execute them with Sharpshooter and advantage. Pa-pow. The +2 to ranged attack rolls from Archery helps make that first shot more likely to land so that they actually fall down, and if you have at least 16 DEX will completely balance out the -5 from doing a sharp shot (which is a roll you're taking with advantage anyways).

Should you feel so inclined, you can also use this with nets. The combination of XBE and SS means that you can actually use nets without disadvantage over their entire range, and so far as I can deduce this does count as a ranged weapon attack hit, meaning it can both be used to trip an opponent and restrain them (setting speed to 0 and thereby preventing them from standing back up until they've removed the net) and can even apply the sharpshooter damage bonus (and sneak attack dice, for that matter... It's a really sharp net!).

Heck, you don't even need to walk up to them first... Just fire a shot and see if they fall down or not. If not, keep your distance. If they do go down, run up and give 'em a septum piercing. At 5th level you get your extra attack and thus the opportunity to fill them full of even more holes. In an optimal scenario, you can knock someone over with the first attack, and then with the help of Action Surge plug a full 4 shots at advantage into them while standing over their pincushioned remains.

Not that anything's going to have that much HP mind you, but it's a thought!



Alternatively, I was thinking how you could take a VHuman Genielock at level 4 and do some real stupidity with Fighting Initiate: Dueling and Charger. Since pact weapon can be pretty much whatever (melee) weapon you want there are a lot of choices here, but I figure whip is probably a solid bet since you can pump DEX for defense and it gives you that extra 5' reach making it easier to just zip away if you end up not actually hitting anything and would like to leave.

The combination of Dueling + Charger + Genielock means that on a successful hit with a whip you're dealing 1d4+DEX... +9. Without any malus to the attack roll (or extra attacks, or the bigger dice of a heavy weapon... But still!). Nab Improved Pact Weapon and you're rocking an additional +1 to Attack and Damage without even having to find loot.

And if things go sour on that attack roll, you're already dashing so you've probably still got enough movespeed to bravely run away.