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[pikachu17]

I like that character idea! So long as the rest of the party's on board with a character that doesn't contribute in combat, it offers a really cool option for roleplaying.

Well, to be fair, he can give advantage to attacks, and make his allies better at Athletics/Acrobatics. So, he's still contributing, just less contributing to damage.

Actually, why is he a rogue, instead of a bard who's instrument is criticism and has a bunch of spells based around criticism? He could still take 3 levels of Rogue for Mastermind if you wish.

possible spells.
Suggestion:In my true, honest, and humble opinion, you should follow me into this dark alleyway. The chances of this being an ambush are so low!
Healing Word: Oh, GET UP! My Grandmother was better at tanking than you!
Message: Psst. You suck.
Sending: Psst. you suck a lot.
Identify: And on this episode on Antiques and Magic Items Roadshow... We have this complete trash.
Bane: Wow. Just... wow... -_-
Feather Fall: Come on! My granny could make that jump!
Silence: Silence! I can't hear the sound of my beautiful voice!
Fear: Yellow-bellied coward.
Stinking Cloud: Every word out of you is just straight up crap.
Enhance Ability: A child could do this!
Hideous Laughter: These buffoons don't know to take things seriously!
Enthrall: Look at my radiance!
Detect Magic/ Counterspell: Hmm... These wizards are ridiculous. They hardly know how to cast a spell!
Modify Memory: No, that is not what happened at all! This is what happened!
Mass Suggestion: Trust me, armor is not at all the current fashion. Just take it off all that armor.
Resurrection: Come on! Death is so last season!
Glibness: Trust my critiques. They are honest and true. Robes of Flaying are completely safe and the newest fashion.
Power word kill: Oh, just die already!
True Polymorph: This is what you should look like!

[Mephisto]

I am already beginning to regret joining this Pathfinder game. I wanted a nice chill game to play while having a drink.

"Hey, Join my Pathfinder thing. Core books. Roll 4d6b3 for stats, you can reroll once. No Evil."

Great. Amazing! Whatever, alignment doesn't matter. Start rolling up characters. Now I have to interact with the other players.

"I'm building a homunculus alchemist or some shit. Also install this random FG plugin containing more obscure whatevers I can take."

"Hey, can I be Evil? Evil doesn't mean what you think. LE isn't 'murder at random' so it'd be okay if I'm LE."

"Hey, can I have another reroll? I really need 16+ in literally every stat to be effective."

"Since we have to have a Profession, can mine be Murderhobo?"

"Mind if one or two more people join?"
"That'd thin the experience but maybe we can take on bigger threats and get more experience."


So far, it's pretty much everything I hate about 3.PF.

[Kagus]

So far, it's pretty much everything I hate about 3.PF.

The players?

[Cruxador]

So far, it's pretty much everything I hate about 3.PF.

The players?

I mean, that is a pretty consistent 3.PF problem.

[Grim Portent]

I like that character idea! So long as the rest of the party's on board with a character that doesn't contribute in combat, it offers a really cool option for roleplaying.

Well, to be fair, he can give advantage to attacks, and make his allies better at Athletics/Acrobatics. So, he's still contributing, just less contributing to damage.

Actually, why is he a rogue, instead of a bard who's instrument is criticism and has a bunch of spells based around criticism? He could still take 3 levels of Rogue for Mastermind if you wish.

My brother asked the same thing, my answer was that overt magic is too useful for the concept. The guy was supposed to be a near total-noncombatant food critic in his most initial envisioning, with Viscious Mockery being added only because we started bouncing condescending insults back and forth in a snobby voice while talking about him and decided it would be a funny combo.

[Kagus]

College of Lore also has the delightful Cutting Words, which is the art of insulting someone to the point that they become considerably worse at whatever it was they were doing. Unfortunately you can only use it as long as you've got charges of inspiration left, but still...

And it uses a reaction! So with 3 Mastermind/3 Lore Bard, you could Vicious Mockery with your action, give helpful criticism with your bonus action, and give unhelpful criticism with your reaction. All in one turn! It's a lot of levels, though...

So far, it's pretty much everything I hate about 3.PF.

The players?

I mean, that is a pretty consistent 3.PF problem.

I hear they're working on patching players out of the next edition, which is going to provide the most streamlined tabletop gaming experience to date!

[Telgin]

I mean, that is a pretty consistent 3.PF problem.

It's a system agnostic problem.  After years of seeing this problem in action, I've come to believe that the less players in a game, the better.  The one-on-one games I've done over the years have frequently been among my favorites.

But I can imagine the problem is particularly significant in D&D and derivatives.

[Mephisto]

The problem went away once we started playing. I was worried it would carry on past character creation but it did not. Ignore my previous complaint, though I still detest that style of gaming.

[Gentlefish]

Character creation can be a gross thing.

It's why I love the fact I'm obsessed with theorycrafting characters. Never anything hyper-optimized to tackle every problem. I like to think "How can I tackle this single problem?"

For example, we had a bunch of downtime recently since we decided to say "Fuck this noise" after we nearly lost our tank to a sentient direweasel that could control swarms.

My druid character crafts magic items. And is the new herbalism nature bond variant (with a few table-specific caveats). I am the proud owner of a handy haversack stuffed with 1/2 crafting cost potions that heal 11 HP each outside of battle. Alongside a few tasty others. Plus at level six my wisdom bonus is +8 thanks to a +6 headband.

[Jimmy]

I'm also a fan of theory-crafting, especially if it allows me to not-so-subtly insert easter eggs into the game, like a mutation warrior fighter carrying a silver and a steel greatsword who hunts monsters for bounties.

[Cruxador]

I mean, that is a pretty consistent 3.PF problem.

It's a system agnostic problem.  After years of seeing this problem in action, I've come to believe that the less players in a game, the better.  The one-on-one games I've done over the years have frequently been among my favorites.

But I can imagine the problem is particularly significant in D&D and derivatives.

It's roughly proportional to the popularity of the system, in my experience. When playing obscure systems, I've had great groups made from just whoever showed interest online, whereas D&D takes years to filter through people or just playing with your existing group. Of course there can be exceptions either way, but that's the tendency in my experience.

[Mephisto]

I mean, that is a pretty consistent 3.PF problem.

It's a system agnostic problem.  After years of seeing this problem in action, I've come to believe that the less players in a game, the better.  The one-on-one games I've done over the years have frequently been among my favorites.

But I can imagine the problem is particularly significant in D&D and derivatives.

It's roughly proportional to the popularity of the system

Having been in D&D 5e, 3.5e, and now PF games, in addition to all of the non-D&D.PF games, I've only experienced this when dealing with 3.PF.

[Jimmy]

Probably as a symptom of the system. The crunchier the rules, the less it's attractive to casual players, and the more munchkinry becomes an issue. And when it comes to crunch, nothing beats 3rd edition and the derivatives.

[Rowanas]

I stright up vetoed 5e in the recent changing of the GMs in my sunday group.  Problem is, I'm the one who can run a dozen (maybe more) systems at the drop of a hat, and the next broadest GM is the one we're switching out from due to GM-fatigue.  Of the four remaining people, only one fo them could run ANYTHING but 5e.

Just... jesus christ, go and learn other systems. I hate 5e (not least because if you want what 5e is, but better in every conceivable fashion, you should play 13th Age) and it's bothering me that unless I choose to run, I'm going to have to play 5e.

[Mephisto]

if you want what 5e is, but better in every conceivable fashion, you should play 13th Age

What I'm reading, this doesn't appear accurate. You could conceivably use most/all of your class features (unless you're a barbarian or something, I guess) outside of combat. It appears that many, many of your class features are exclusive to combat scenarios in 13th Age. And while in combat scenarios, the characters usually do the one thing they're good at. If all you do is combat, I guess it'd be a good choice.

and it's bothering me that unless I choose to run, I'm going to have to play 5e.

[tinyviolin]

That's the issue that people who enjoy trying new systems face as well. I've got a whole shelf of shit. I can't play any of it but the tiny D&D section (or occasionally Savage Worlds) unless I run it.