Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Any D&D/D20

Shadowrun

World of Darkness

Palladium

Other (feel free to post about it)

[GiglameshDespair]

It's pretty good, yeah. Both the warlocks I have are tome pact. That said...

There's no cantrip with an actual cost.

If you want a very small item briefly just use prestigidation. One of the affects it can have is:

Code: [Select]

You create a nonmagical trinket or a hand-sized illusionary image. It lasts until the end of your next turn.
I've used it in the past for keys, mainly. They can't be stolen from me because they last long enough for me to lock or unlock the object and then disappear, and I don't need to possess the original object.

I wouldn't agree that you could use it to polish something to almost frictionless either, since that doesn't fit the definition of cleaning. You're magically removing the dirt from something, not actually scrubbing it down.

[Kagus]

There's no cantrip with an actual cost.

Odd, there are a couple cantrips listed here with material costs... Things like Dancing Lights, Mending, and Message. Or are low-level materials like that just considered as "covered" by a component pouch without having to specifically get them?

Of course, I suppose it's possible that this page is just willfully misleading, because after all, "We're not the PHB".

I wouldn't agree that you could use it to polish something to almost frictionless either, since that doesn't fit the definition of cleaning. You're magically removing the dirt from something, not actually scrubbing it down.

The difficulty comes when the object you're cleaning can itself be considered something that would be cleaned away... Such as "cleaning" a patch of dirt. Do you let someone dig a hole until there is no more dirt, or do you let them be more specific and define what dirt is dirtying the other dirt?

I'd heard the "polish a stone into a mirror" example given by someone who presumably knew a thing or two about the spell's uses and abuses, so I figured it was something people did. Still though, hiding in a kitchen and incessantly cooling a dish every time it comes off the stove seems like plenty enough reason to take Presti, even without a DM who lets you just *poof* goddamn keys into existence... I'm ashamed to say I missed that definition.

I mean, if your group is okay with those kinds of munchkin shenanigans go ahead, but if they aren't then all a character like that does is wreck the game for everyone.  Not a judgment against you for wanting to play that way, just an observation of standard group dynamics.

Well, I mean, there's munchkinning and then there's munchkinning... Like, I of course want to make an effective character who can hold their own in a fight, but I also don't want to just make Minmax the Warrior to stomp upon all comers, because that gets boring.

Disguising wine as strawberry-flavored popsicles and terrorizing the local children sounds much more entertaining to me. Or abusing Minor Illusion's description stating that "you can create a sound of any volume", and hardballing a negotiation until the other party will do whatever it takes to please make the floor stop screaming.

[Biowraith]

There's no cantrip with an actual cost.

Odd, there are a couple cantrips listed here with material costs... Things like Dancing Lights, Mending, and Message. Or are low-level materials like that just considered as "covered" by a component pouch without having to specifically get them?

Any component without a listed gold cost can be substituted with a component pouch or spellcasting focus.  If it does list a gold cost, you need the actual component.

Also, if you are using components, they're not consumed unless the spell explicitly says they are (usually with the phrase "which the spell consumes"), so you can still spam e.g. Message using the same piece of copper wire for all castings.

[GiglameshDespair]

Odd, there are a couple cantrips listed here with material costs... Things like Dancing Lights, Mending, and Message. Or are low-level materials like that just considered as "covered" by a component pouch without having to specifically get them?

Of course, I suppose it's possible that this page is just willfully misleading, because after all, "We're not the PHB".

As Biowraith said, a component does not have a material cost listed (e.g Augury, which requires specially marked sticks, bones, or similar tokens worth at least 25 gp) then it is considered covered by a component pouch or arcane focus.

The difficulty comes when the object you're cleaning can itself be considered something that would be cleaned away... Such as "cleaning" a patch of dirt. Do you let someone dig a hole until there is no more dirt, or do you let them be more specific and define what dirt is dirtying the other dirt?

The spell could just fail. Neither of those outcomes is really cleaning something.

Prestidigitation is good, but it's not do-everything.

[IcyTea31]

Odd, there are a couple cantrips listed here with material costs... Things like Dancing Lights, Mending, and Message. Or are low-level materials like that just considered as "covered" by a component pouch without having to specifically get them?

Of course, I suppose it's possible that this page is just willfully misleading, because after all, "We're not the PHB".

As Biowraith said, a component does not have a material cost listed (e.g Augury, which requires specially marked sticks, bones, or similar tokens worth at least 25 gp) then it is considered covered by a component pouch or arcane focus.

Furthermore, unless specifically noted, you don't lose the materials upon casting the spell. So if you only need a piece of copper wire for your Message, you probably don't need a full component pouch.

[scriver]

A piece of copper wire? That's a neato reference. Or injoke. Or whatever you want to call it.

[Kagus]

A piece of copper wire? That's a neato reference. Or injoke. Or whatever you want to call it.

Who even knows, man... I mean, this is 5e, with the "let's make things cyberpunk!" BookLoadable Content extension.

Furthermore, unless specifically noted, you don't lose the materials upon casting the spell. So if you only need a piece of copper wire for your Message, you probably don't need a full component pouch.

Huh. See, for some reason I was used to the thought of it consuming said materials under normal circumstances. Not sure if that's actually the way it was in earlier versions, or if that's just something I misinterpreted, but there you have it.

The spell could just fail. Neither of those outcomes is really cleaning something.

Sure they are, all depending on how you define "cleaning". There are more solid, non-dirt layers in soil composition, and there are significant differences between a tended patch of dirt and a non-tended patch of dirty. Hell, I've personally seen shiny, slippery floors that were composed entirely of mud... All it really comes down to is how much your DM feels like interpreting/arguing.

[Rolan7]

A piece of copper wire? That's a neato reference. Or injoke. Or whatever you want to call it.

Who even knows, man... I mean, this is 5e, with the "let's make things cyberpunk!" BookLoadable Content extension.

Heh, copper wire for Message and Sending was a thing in 3.5 too.  Probably earlier.  A lot of spells have amusing components/focii like that...  At first I thought they were just jokes, but I think it's a nod to sympathetic magic.

My favorite is still a pork rind for the Grease spell, though the bat guano for Fireball comes close.  It's very combustable!

[Mephisto]

My D&D group is entering a new arc. We're going to be building up a frontier town on a large island. I've considered semi-retiring my kobold bard and rolling up a monstrous local.

Let it be known that my spell choices may be semi-optimal but stats and race/class combinations never are. I know I'm going lizardfolk. The only question that remains is class. I'm going to play up the shamanism angle, leading me to look at some mystic disciplines or the shepherd druid.

[Kagus]

Aha. Did a little more digging, learned something new. I wasn't aware that 5e cantrips could be cast repeatedly under normal circumstances, I thought they still had their own "level 0" spell slots that they spent. So the tome pact is basically just getting access to more cantrips from potentially off-limits lists? I mean, that's still nice, I just thought that the inscribed turnips were somehow more free than usual.

I primarily associated warlocks with spamcasting, so they're the class I looked at first for magical tomfoolery. If everyone gets "free" turnips, then I suppose that broadens the shenanigan spectrum now doesn't it?

[wierd]

I was under the impression that a cantrip could cause literally ANY effect, but it was always a *WORTHLESS* one.

EG, it makes sparkles and pretty lights-- or a nasty stink (but no toxic effects), or something similar.

A cantrip is something the caster can perform freely, because they used it to help hone their ability to focus and use magic, a sort of mnemonic device of a sort. At least that was my understanding of what a cantrip is....

[Mephisto]

...  I just thought that the inscribed turnips were somehow more free than usual.

... If everyone gets "free" turnips, then I suppose that broadens the shenanigan spectrum now doesn't it?

I love this.

I was under the impression that a cantrip could cause literally ANY effect, but it was always a *WORTHLESS* one.

Not worthless. There's Light, Mending, and loads of useful utility spells. Most of the damaging cantrips increase in damage as you level. Amongst these: Acid Splash, Eldritch Blast, Sacred Flame, Vicious Mockery.

[Biowraith]

So the tome pact is basically just getting access to more cantrips from potentially off-limits lists?

Initially yes, but tome pact also opens up an Invocation that lets the warlock add spells above cantrip level (spell level up to half their warlock level) from any spell list to their tome, so long as the spell has the Ritual tag.  They can only cast those spells as rituals though (doesn't use up a spell slot, adds 10 minutes to the cast time).

Edit: And not specific to tome pact, but Eldritch Blast is only on the Warlock spell lists and is one of the best damaging cantrips (the best if the Warlock takes the relevant Invocation(s) to enhance it).

[Grim Portent]

5E warlock is basically a magical archer first and foremost, eldritch blast scales in number of shots as you level and they can buff it in various ways with Invocations. Hex as a spell can buff the damage further and you basically zap things.

Alternatively there's some fun things you can do with Blade warlocks. Spell Sniper (feat) lets you use the melee cantrips from SCAG with reach weapons and warlock can make a better melee damager than other casters.

Chainlocks get a familiar that's useful for scouting or handing out advantage with the aid another action. They also get an invocation to maximise all healing they get, so they pair well with the Celestial Patron.



One build I like the idea of is Scourge Aasimar (from Volo's Guide) Paladin or Fighter 1, Phoenix Sorcerer 1 (from an unearthed arcana article) and then Celestial Warlock 6 (from Xanathar's) with the Greenflame Blade cantrip (from SCAG).

Scourge Aasimar can go into what is basically a divine rage once per long rest as a bonus action, Phoenix Sorcerer can do a fire themed rage once per long rest as an action, together you basically burst into radiant flames for a minute in major fights doing mild AoE damage, mild melee revenge damage and adding your level in radiant damage to one attack/spell and your charisma to fire damage rolls each round. At Celestial warlock 6 you add charisma to one fire damage roll again.

You scale slower than a more mundane fighter/paladin build, and you are more MAD than a hexblade is, but you wind up dealing (weapon damage + Str) +(1d8 + charisma) and 1d8 + charisma*2 fire damage to another target within 5 feet, and you can add your charisma to one fire damage roll again, and your level as radiant damage to one roll and everyone in 10 feet (including you) takes half your level in radiant damage each round and anyone who hits you takes your charisma in fire damage.

You essentially become an armoured pillar of holy fire once per day, and then you add actual spells and invocations on top for versatility or more damage.

[Criptfeind]

I'm playing a paladin (Goliath though, not Aasimar) in a game right now and I've been thinking of a similar build, although celestial warlock is flavorfully cool, I find it a bit hard to justify taking it over more sorcerer levels. Eldritch Smite, Lifedrinker and Radiant Soul are cool, but don't compared well to all of sorcerer and paladin spellcasting (which is conviently upgraded by sorcerer levels so long as you have 2 paladin levels first) especially when thirsting blade doesn't stack with green flame blade and you can use those high level spell slots from sorcerer to empower your smites fairly freely (Of course, warlock can smite even more freely, although less powerfully...) as you quicken out multiple high level smites a turn.