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Any D&D/D20

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World of Darkness

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[Gentlefish]

"luck" is the perceived anomaly of success over failure an individual appears to have.

If a person is very perceptive, even unconsciously, they can evade a dangerous situation because they perceive the danger. This can be expressed as a bonus on the saving throw, etc-- which is how the book does it. 

Likewise, that same perceptivity will allow them to make connections or to intuit relationships that others do not realize or see. EG-- the halfling might be better at poker, because he can pick out unconscious facial expressions in the other player's poker faces.

"Luck" is the final, apparent product of the features cited-- Halflings get bonuses to a lot of things, because they are small, fast, good with their hands, and very perceptive.

Or, like in most fantastical settings, Luck is an actual but intangible "thing" usually bestowed upon mortals by divine beings. Either through modifying their "thread" into a better position in the weave or through other means world-related.

[wierd]

NFO basically was just lamplighting that there is a difference between what the player knows, and what the character knows.

Simply because I happen to know about nitrates, and their usefulness as an explosive precursor, does not mean that Wizzy McWizzface does. I fully accepted that, because it is quite apparently true.

However, it was not the argument I was railing against.  The argument I was railing against was more straw-manish (as NFO does not do it anyway, but many DMs DO): Treating magic as "Fundementally unknowable", and so, denying any attempts to understand why you need a fist full of dried peas to cast a certain spell--- etc. (pathfinder example.)

If you know why you need the fist full of dried peas, you can possibly do a substitution, or possibly even revise the spell so that it is not needed at all.  This alters the casting mechanic of the magic, through applied magical knowledge, which many DMs will forbid because it changes the mechanics of the game-- and also, "I dont like thinking about magic, I like swords and clobbering things-- so I invoke rule-zero on you because 'not fun!'" also rears its head.

I countered that Newton did not need to know about the Higgs field to formulate his law of universal gravitation (which was plenty good enough for several hundred years, until it was replaced by Einstien and general relativity, and then added to with quantum theory and quantum gravity-- through increasingly sophisticated and expensive experimentation)--- He just needed to do some simple experiments with weights and measures, and do some math.

Giving an explanation for why an experiment's outcome is a certain way is the DM's job, if the player wants to do the experiment. However, the results of the experiment must become just as real as fire being hot is; Something the player can then build on to learn or do other things. He and I agreed on that, as long as the process is not tortuous or joy-killing.

[NullForceOmega]

Yep.  I agree with everything in the above statement, and I think we pretty much ironed out where we each stand on the subject.

Anyway, scriver, I expect a full workup on that setting on my desk by Monday, get to it. : p

[smjjames]

Just out of curiosity, what specific spell are you referring to that needs dried peas or somesuch?

[smjjames]

Yep.  I agree with everything in the above statement, and I think we pretty much ironed out where we each stand on the subject.

Anyway, scriver, I expect a full workup on that setting on my desk by Monday, get to it. : p

Technically I thought it up first, he just added detail and whatever Rime Western is. I guess Rime Western is just a Wild West type setting, except it's in the arctic or tundra.

[NullForceOmega]

Then make it a collaborative effort, you've both been drafted for project Snowflake Wastes. : p

[smjjames]

Lol. edit: Got any good links on Rime Western? Google has absolutely no clue what I'm talking about.

[NullForceOmega]

In all seriousness, if anyone does want to draw up a setting for public consumption, I'd be happy to put a link in the first post for them.

@smjjames: pretty sure you got it the first time, rime is just a term for frost and has been sort of generally applied to wintery things.

[Kadzar]

Just out of curiosity, what specific spell are you referring to that needs dried peas or somesuch?

Solid Fog. Or maybe Acid Fog.

[smjjames]

In all seriousness, if anyone does want to draw up a setting for public consumption, I'd be happy to put a link in the first post for them.

@smjjames: pretty sure you got it the first time, rime is just a term for ice/wintery things.

I thought you were referring to some sort of ruleset like the way Pathfinder is a ruleset.

Just out of curiosity, what specific spell are you referring to that needs dried peas or somesuch?

Solid Fog. Or maybe Acid Fog.

Gonna note that it says dried, powdered peas, not dried and uncrushed like it was implied earlier. Seems like a subtle reference to 'pea soup thick fog'.

[NullForceOmega]

Ever expanding snowflake realm doomed to inevitable summer thaw is a solid fit for D20/pathfinder mechanics, maybe generalized for D&D.  Lots of cold and frost themed monsters, spells, magic items.  A cosmology centered around constant cold, with a mix of cold uncaring and warm protective deities.  Perfect for hardened warriors and survivalist cultures.  A strong focus on salvage/recycling and an abhorrence of wasteful behavior.  This thing nearly writes itself.

[wierd]

Yes-- but what is it ABOUT the peas that makes them so fundamental to spell? Surely, some other thickener, like flour, could be substituted if it is merely a sympathetic magic component-- etc.


---
Snowflake world:

Like nearly all cosmologies, it would gloss over the "primordial" misty air as "having always been", from which a shard of order spontaneously grows, and from which their world is born.

[NullForceOmega]

Could just be symbolism at work wierd, spells are a combination of physical and metaphysical elements, belief has as much power as substance.

Snowflake Wastes:

*From the last, cold, breath of the dying *creator* The Core formed, and from that deathly still place all of the first vanes spread, giving scant comfort to the drifting life that *creator* carelessly spread across the void."

Writes.  Itself.

[wierd]

Yes. I lamplit that.  The term is "sympathetic magic"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_magic

If it is merely sympathetic magic, than nearly any material with similar properties could be substituted without issue.

[Egan_BW]

Yes-- but what is it ABOUT the peas that makes them so fundamental to spell? Surely, some other thickener, like flour, could be substituted if it is merely a sympathetic magic component-- etc.

The casting gremlins consume the final products you throw in, and they have little DNA receptors on their tongues so if you use a thickening agent that did not come from a pea plant, they throw fireballs at you instead of casting mist.