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Author Topic: Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!  (Read 939788 times)

Rolan7

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4650 on: November 13, 2017, 08:58:14 am »

Spoiler: Amber videogame stuff (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile in DND, I continue to be bewildered by reserve feats.  Our necromancer player found me a feat that practically lets me keep a summoned elemental around constantly.  There's lots of caveats, I just have confusing feelings about "free" casting (like cantrips in PF or 5th or whatever).  Like, Complete Arcane has something similar which requires you to outpace the spell by 7 spell levels.  This is just one spell level.

To clarify, this is Summon Elemental from Complete Mage (not Complete Arcane, some weird other thing).  It lets me reserve a 4th, 6th or 8th level summoning spell in order to summon a small, medium or large elemental.  It only lasts 4 6 or 8 rounds and has to stay within 30ft, but yeah, free casting.

This is fairly groovy since, as a Shugenja, I'm only *allowed* to summon 1d3 elementals anyway.  We get oddly limited versions of Summon Monster like that - currently just "Summon Monster 4, but it has to be 1d3 small elementals".  Small elementals are still garbage in combat, but this gives me a 100% expendable assistant instead of having to burn uses of my current highest spell slot.

Sweetening the pot, necromancer-player also found a feat that's like Augment Summoning...  Except instead of having Spell Focus (Conjuration) as a painful feat tax, Augment Elemental only works on summoned elementals.  This certainly isn't OP, but it sure fits with my limitations and lets me influence the battlefield helpfully.

I can probably actually get these next session by trading out feats I haven't used.  Sudden Maximize is 1/day and meh, and I've never remembered to apply Greater Spell Focus (Water).  Probably because I have like 1 water spell which requires a save.  In my defense, my class granted the standard Spell Focus, and I assumed I'd take more water attack spells (ice, mostly).

Also Truenamers are hilariously broken in so many ways.  We don't have one in our party, we've just been chatting about it.
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Mephisto

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4651 on: November 13, 2017, 09:17:27 am »

Also Truenamers are hilariously broken in so many ways.

Which is so sad. One of the first characters I came up with (which, thankfully, didn't see any play) was a Truenamer. So many forms of fantasy media feature the "words have power" trope that I usually enjoy.

There are a few overhauls floating around the internet that might be worth looking into, if you ever plan on statting one up.
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Trekkin

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4652 on: November 13, 2017, 12:32:38 pm »

Also Truenamers are hilariously broken in so many ways.

Which is so sad. One of the first characters I came up with (which, thankfully, didn't see any play) was a Truenamer. So many forms of fantasy media feature the "words have power" trope that I usually enjoy.

There are a few overhauls floating around the internet that might be worth looking into, if you ever plan on statting one up.

In my opinion, the ne plus ultra of the "words have power" trope is probably Ars Magica. The rest of the system takes steps to accommodate players having alts and downtime that can complicate the mechanics, but having a set of nouns and verbs to make magic happen flexibly is spot-on for encouraging creativity and just feeling like a wizard for once.
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Gentlefish

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4653 on: November 13, 2017, 01:46:51 pm »

Spoiler: Amber videogame stuff (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile in DND, I continue to be bewildered by reserve feats.  Our necromancer player found me a feat that practically lets me keep a summoned elemental around constantly.  There's lots of caveats, I just have confusing feelings about "free" casting (like cantrips in PF or 5th or whatever).  Like, Complete Arcane has something similar which requires you to outpace the spell by 7 spell levels.  This is just one spell level.

To clarify, this is Summon Elemental from Complete Mage (not Complete Arcane, some weird other thing).  It lets me reserve a 4th, 6th or 8th level summoning spell in order to summon a small, medium or large elemental.  It only lasts 4 6 or 8 rounds and has to stay within 30ft, but yeah, free casting.

This is fairly groovy since, as a Shugenja, I'm only *allowed* to summon 1d3 elementals anyway.  We get oddly limited versions of Summon Monster like that - currently just "Summon Monster 4, but it has to be 1d3 small elementals".  Small elementals are still garbage in combat, but this gives me a 100% expendable assistant instead of having to burn uses of my current highest spell slot.

Sweetening the pot, necromancer-player also found a feat that's like Augment Summoning...  Except instead of having Spell Focus (Conjuration) as a painful feat tax, Augment Elemental only works on summoned elementals.  This certainly isn't OP, but it sure fits with my limitations and lets me influence the battlefield helpfully.

I can probably actually get these next session by trading out feats I haven't used.  Sudden Maximize is 1/day and meh, and I've never remembered to apply Greater Spell Focus (Water).  Probably because I have like 1 water spell which requires a save.  In my defense, my class granted the standard Spell Focus, and I assumed I'd take more water attack spells (ice, mostly).

Also Truenamers are hilariously broken in so many ways.  We don't have one in our party, we've just been chatting about it.

...Oh man, I looked at the benefits of Augment Elemental. It would actually stack with augment summons. Hecka neat.

Rolan7

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4654 on: November 13, 2017, 02:04:05 pm »

Yeah, necromancer's player was kinda pushing in that direction (until we had a big laugh about how he was trying to turn the healer into a minion-lord like him :P).
But, dang, Spell Focus (Conjuration) wouldn't actually be useless when I'm "healing" undead in combat.  It'll probably be a few months before I get to level 12 and could complete the combo, but it might be worth it...

At that point it'd be a medium elemental, usually earth for (+12 1d8+11) instead of (+8 1d8+7).  +1 att and dam due to its Earth Mastery, and it can earthglide through natural ground...  That actually sounds relevant even for level 12.  Hardly a heavy hitter, but free, and will last 6 rounds per casting.  I'd still be fulfilling my main roles of buffing (barkskin and shield of faith scale WELL!) and healing/restoring just as well!

And my primary purpose: finding any excuse to cast Create Water
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Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

deathpunch578

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4655 on: November 13, 2017, 03:28:13 pm »

So, I don't know if people are interested. But, here is a character from an old campaign (DnD), his name was Torjn Wartooth (barbarian with some monk stuff, don't remember the exact levels or stats).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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pikachu17

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4656 on: November 13, 2017, 08:43:09 pm »

I just found out a way to get a 5th level character to pass a DC 20 Persuasion check with a die roll of 2.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4657 on: November 13, 2017, 09:57:56 pm »

Also Truenamers are hilariously broken in so many ways.

Which is so sad. One of the first characters I came up with (which, thankfully, didn't see any play) was a Truenamer. So many forms of fantasy media feature the "words have power" trope that I usually enjoy.

There are a few overhauls floating around the internet that might be worth looking into, if you ever plan on statting one up.

In my opinion, the ne plus ultra of the "words have power" trope is probably Ars Magica. The rest of the system takes steps to accommodate players having alts and downtime that can complicate the mechanics, but having a set of nouns and verbs to make magic happen flexibly is spot-on for encouraging creativity and just feeling like a wizard for once.

I swear it's pure coincidence that we've just had a whole bunch of posts about Amber, but I mentioned the concept of lynchpins before, which are right on point with this.

Amber has Power Words, but they're a very limited form of magic.  Powerful, but not versatile.  Very simple and direct.  Fundamental stuff.

Then there's Sorcery. 

The idea with sorcery in Amber is magic is a set of instructions woven with energy.  Depending on the complexity and power of the spell, they can take from minutes to days to prepare, and can do literally anything given the requisite research and prep time.  But this makes spellcasting really difficult to apply practically.  Most situations where you need a fireball don't allow you several hours of prep.

So in the Amber universe, spells can be "hung".  They're described as a weaving of power and information.  Energy with a set of instructions.  You can gather that energy with an incomplete set of instructions, and store it in a receptable, to be completed when you actually want the spell effect to happen.  The gaps you leave in the instruction set are referred to as "lynchpins".  If you prepare your spell cleverly, you only recite a couple words, and unleash the effect of the spell you had prepared.

The tricky thing is knowing exactly how incomplete to leave the spell, because they have to be incredibly specific.  The spell's instructions have to include every detail of what, when, where, why, and how.  If you don't leave lynchpins open for things like the target of the spell, the duration or termination conditions, the tailoring to the magical properties of the world in which you're casting it, etc, then you risk not being able to adapt the spell to the situation in which you need it.  But if you leave too many variables open to close up in order to cast it, then your spell isn't really appropriate for the kind of situations where you likely need them.  You need to prepare them cleverly.  And they require maintenance, as hung spells fade over time.


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Jimmy

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4658 on: November 14, 2017, 06:10:57 am »

I just found out a way to get a 5th level character to pass a DC 20 Persuasion check with a die roll of 2.
We've got a guy like this in our Pathfinder Society game. He's running a Vigilante with an absolutely ridiculous +10 on his Diplomacy rolls, as a 1st level character. Auto-wins any social encounter for our group.

The only trouble is that nobody can pronounce his damned name. Serously, who calls their character Yrren? Mostly just gets pronounced as "urine".
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SOLDIER First

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4659 on: November 14, 2017, 07:24:46 am »

Ear-wren?
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pikachu17

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4660 on: November 14, 2017, 10:12:45 am »

I just found out a way to get a 5th level character to pass a DC 20 Persuasion check with a die roll of 2.
We've got a guy like this in our Pathfinder Society game. He's running a Vigilante with an absolutely ridiculous +10 on his Diplomacy rolls, as a 1st level character. Auto-wins any social encounter for our group.
Right now I'm looking at a modifier of +16+1d4+1d8. That's only if I can prepare beforehand, and only once before a short rest, but that still means I can pass a DC 40 Persuasion check without a natural 20.
Are there additional things beside Guidance, Bardic Insipiration, and Enhance Ability that would help with a Persuasion check that a 5th level party would have access to?

Unrelated, Can one take Dash as a regular action, and a bonus action?
If so, do you move 3x, or 4x your speed?

In case it is not clear, I'm talking about 5E Dnd.
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Harry Baldman

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4661 on: November 14, 2017, 10:25:48 am »

We've got a guy like this in our Pathfinder Society game. He's running a Vigilante with an absolutely ridiculous +10 on his Diplomacy rolls, as a 1st level character. Auto-wins any social encounter for our group.

The only trouble is that nobody can pronounce his damned name. Serously, who calls their character Yrren? Mostly just gets pronounced as "urine".

Goblins are great for this kind of thing with Stealth. They have a +4 size bonus, a +4 racial bonus, add +4 from having a single rank in it as a class skill and anywhere from +4 to +6 in Dex (since they do get +4 Dexterity as a racial bonus).

I played a Witch and rolled +21 at 3rd level or something ridiculous like that, and it doesn't even require you to particularly go out of your way to do it.
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Kadzar

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4662 on: November 14, 2017, 05:06:25 pm »

I just found out a way to get a 5th level character to pass a DC 20 Persuasion check with a die roll of 2.
We've got a guy like this in our Pathfinder Society game. He's running a Vigilante with an absolutely ridiculous +10 on his Diplomacy rolls, as a 1st level character. Auto-wins any social encounter for our group.
Right now I'm looking at a modifier of +16+1d4+1d8. That's only if I can prepare beforehand, and only once before a short rest, but that still means I can pass a DC 40 Persuasion check without a natural 20.
Are there additional things beside Guidance, Bardic Insipiration, and Enhance Ability that would help with a Persuasion check that a 5th level party would have access to?

Unrelated, Can one take Dash as a regular action, and a bonus action?
If so, do you move 3x, or 4x your speed?

In case it is not clear, I'm talking about 5E Dnd.
I was pretty sure this was impossible, but then I took a look through my new copy of Xanathar's Guide:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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scriver

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4663 on: November 14, 2017, 07:53:55 pm »

I thought that one wasn't out yet?
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Kadzar

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Axes or railguns?
« Reply #4664 on: November 14, 2017, 10:38:08 pm »

I thought that one wasn't out yet?
It's available early from game stores as of the 10th.
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