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[BlackFlyme]

Outfitting the drow with useful things, like magic tattoos (which cannot be looted, because well-- they are part of the drow's skin!) gives the drow in question the equivalent of having wondrous items equipped, without actually having wondrous items to loot.

Unlootable loot. Bane of some players' existence. Admittedly, sometimes called for depending on your party make-up. I'm more often bothered by golems who actually have a weapon or some other item integrated into their bodies, and end up with the gear becoming unrecoverable upon their destruction. Especially if it's a construct a player made.

If they can craft their own items, then loot from enemies becomes less important, and you may actually need to lower the wealth you come across to correct the effects of players getting anything they want for half-price or less.

For my own part, I'm having trouble with my setting. On the one hand, I like the general concept of a world where the Heroes of Prophecy fucked up their jobs royally more than two centuries ago, and thus left most of the continent in the hands of an Alienist* Dracolich and his pet Necrocracy.

*Every time I go back and read the Lords of Madness extension, I am struck by how terrible this prestige class is.

Terrible as in overpowered, or terrible as in shit?

[Draignean]

Terrible as in overpowered, or terrible as in shit?

Terrible as in shit.

Basically, all it gets you is the ability to have your summons all carry the Pseudonatural trait, which grants them the whopping bonus of being able to transform into a ball of tentacles and use true strike once. Now, the good part of that is it basically lets you use whatever you can summon as a near-always hitting physical damage spell, but...

Among their other class abilities are such beauties as....
Permanently gain a +1 to all saves, at the cost of permanent -2 Wis!
Gain metamagic bonus feats at prestige levels 3 and 7!
Gain 3 HP (Yes, you hear me, a monumental 3 hp) in exchange for a permanent -4 to bluff, diplomacy, and handle animal!
At 6th prestige level you finally gain a useful ability, and that's... one more summon slot your highest level! Woo!
At 8th prestige level you get another incredible +3 hp bonus, and a -6 to bluff, diplomacy, and handle animal that is cumulative with your original penalty!
But wait, there's more!
At 9th prestige level you get a copy of the Druid's timeless body, remember kids, druids only get this at level 15, so if you're perfectly optimal you can get it one whole level sooner!

The final rung of the prestige class is decent, and is basically a weak version of the level 20 monk upgrade. You forever become an aberration, with all of the resistances and DR that entails.


Also, Alienist is Complete Arcane, not Lords of Madness. I always do that.

[heydude6]

Sounds like something that should be houseruled. It's pretty cool thematically but the numbers aren't right.

I'd say make it a +2 to all saves at the cost of wisdom, gain 3 constitution rather than 3 hp. And make the bluff,diplomacy, handle animal malus -3 and -6, but not stacking. I think that will prevent it from being at least underpowered.

Of course, I don't know 3.5 edition that we'll so it's possible I may have just broke the game.

[Criptfeind]

Eh, you missed the biggest benefit from alienist. Full spellcasting.

T1 tbh. Everything else is gravy. (The bonus metamagics are also actually really good on the grand scale of what one can get from prc classes too ) Sure, other then that it's a a whole lota negatives for little to no upside, but it's for people playing a creepy mutant alien, and that's exactly what it makes you.

[Draignean]

Eh, you missed the biggest benefit from alienist. Full spellcasting.

T1 tbh. Everything else is gravy.

That's the thing, it's basically an awkward feat with a couple of hijinx.  It's a T1 if taken by a wizard, because a wizard is a T1. It's a T2 if taken by a sorcerer, because a sorcerer is a T2. It's a nothing prestige class that doesn't bring anything to the table.


It's a prestige class that can be taken by T1 classes. It does not produce any significant handicaps, therefore it remains T1. However, it is utterly uninteresting.

It doesn't make a character substantially worse (Unlike Some) but it sure as hell doesn't do anything new or different- which rather defeats the purpose of the prestige class system IMHO.

[Harry Baldman]

For my own part, I'm having trouble with my setting. On the one hand, I like the general concept of a world where the Heroes of Prophecy fucked up their jobs royally more than two centuries ago, and thus left most of the continent in the hands of an Alienist* Dracolich and his pet Necrocracy.

On the other hand, it runs into one of the larger problems I have in campaigns: giving people impossible problems. See, I like giving people horrible snarls of brambles that no human could ever escape from, because I want to see what people DO in those sorts of situations. Still, it's a problem, and I've been told that I have a bad habit of making the early encounters so impossibly horrifying that most people try to abandon their respective quests and go farm goats on a secluded mountain.

Things are usually okay once they get rolling, but... Well, I'm leery of creating a setting that is, at it's core too dark and dreary.

Bah. Still working on it. Intros are hard, and for some reason this one is bothering me more than most. Hell, maybe I'll just go back to my Smalls campaign idea...

Well, the Big Setting Problems aren't necessarily the players' problems. Even if a dracolich and their cadre of vampires rule over the world, it's a safe assumption that life somehow would go on, no? They only become player problems once the players' progression starts to inescapably conflict with the ruling class agenda (probably something about farming blood and such), not to mention that said undead overlords have ruled for about 10 generations now and that means that only really long-lived races could possibly remember what life was like beforehand, which may or may not radicalize them against the existing regime (elven partisans! dwarven survivalists! gnomish mad bombers! the aboleth conspiracy!). Pull a Deus Ex and have the players initially on the side of the Necrocracy, with the possible option of going against them later.

EDIT: Actually, this kind of reminds me of an idea I had about a game where the players are tax collectors in service to an imperial regime sent out to the borderlands to try and extort money from the local nobility and functionaries. It's fun to start a game as something other than adventurers.

[Jimmy]

I'm looking forward to doing weird shit to my players soon. I've thrown orc children allips at them before, which got into some seriously disturbing nightmare fuel images, but they're about to run into a stronghold of kytons on the Shadow Plane if they're going to continue pursuing this current adventure path.

In Pathfinder, kytons aren't just a chain devil like in 3.5e. They're actually an entire subrace of lawful evil outsiders native to the plane of shadow who're into extreme body modding. My players are about to get dipped face-first into a kyton Flesh Forge, where mortal slaves with magical talent are carved into weapons of mass destruction.

[Neonivek]

At 9th prestige level you get a copy of the Druid's timeless body, remember kids, druids only get this at level 15, so if you're perfectly optimal you can get it one whole level sooner!

Given Timeless Body is a fluff ability that is more for "Oooohs" and "aaaahs" and has no tangible effect on games anymore.

[SOLDIER First]

I'm looking forward to doing weird shit to my players soon. I've thrown orc children allips at them before, which got into some seriously disturbing nightmare fuel images, but they're about to run into a stronghold of kytons on the Shadow Plane if they're going to continue pursuing this current adventure path.

In Pathfinder, kytons aren't just a chain devil like in 3.5e. They're actually an entire subrace of lawful evil outsiders native to the plane of shadow who're into extreme body modding. My players are about to get dipped face-first into a kyton Flesh Forge, where mortal slaves with magical talent are carved into weapons of mass destruction.

Want some inspiration?

[Draignean]

...

Harry. I'm beginning to suspect that you're reading my setting notes over my shoulder via astral projection.  For  instance...

A few of the longer lived (or simply immortal) species might still burn with resentment, but their numbers are few, and culled quickly when they show signs of organized resistance. Most people are happy enough to eke out a living- evading the Blood Tax as best they can, and protecting any who they love in the same manner. The Necrocrats, by and large, are not wantonly cruel masters, and they are perfectly happy to allow the more useful members of the mortal species to serve them well in exchange for continued life. Ennui is a perpetual problem for the bloodlords, forbidden as they are from making open war on one another, and an interesting mortal is a wonderful way to wile away the years. There are always more mortal cattle to feed upon, and there are always those willing to exchange their own blood for a pampered life of luxury as a pet.

The Necropoli are really nice places to live if you're a functional part of the New Order. The Necrocrats WANT mortals to live and reproduce, because they depend on them for sustenance. Criminal punishment is defined in terms of how much blood you lose, and petty crime is near nil. Why risk being nearly exsanguinated for a bauble when there are institutions set up to allow you to voluntarily give up your blood for greater reward and greater safety?

The stratification of the Necropolis is strict, and is based off of the Blood Tax. The Blood Tax is essentially an amount of constitution points living blood that the mortal denizens must pay to the Necrocracy. Now, since a once yearly tax collected in literal blood would kill a good number, the Necrocracy basically hijacked the old currency, reminted it to make it distinctive, and backed it with blood.

Blood is life. Money is blood. Thus, Money is life. 

 At the bottom you have the lawless, individuals who do not recognize the fact that they are property and refuse to submit to the taxation. These are criminals beyond normal criminals. Any citizen who catches a Lawless can bring them to a Tax House, where they will be bled and the equivalent blood price paid back to the captor.

A fair step above that you have the general population of cattle. Cattle is the term for people who do not actually produce anything, but instead exist by selling their blood. Often unskilled, Cattle are kept in line by force and by a substantial selection of entertainments and pleasures. Fear, after all, spoils the taste of the meat, and a substantial caste of vampires is dedicated to nothing but perfecting various experiences in order to concoct new flavors of blood. The average QoL for one of the Cattle is likely substantially higher than it was 200 years ago. After all, when mortals were free, there was little intrinsic value to being alive. Now life is a commodity you can sell by degrees.

Only slightly above the Cattle are the Tenders. Tenders are mortals who provide services to the cattle, in exchange for the money the cattle received for their blood. Tenders are thief-catchers, bar owners, black smiths, prostitutes, chefs, carpenters, rag and bone men- any individual who earns (primarily) earns money by selling a service to cattle (or other Tenders) instead of directly selling their own blood.

Substantially above the Tenders are the Talents. Talents are Tenders who are of sufficient skill that, instead of selling their services to Cattle, sell them directly to members of the Necrocracy. Talents, again, can be anything. A Duskblade acting as a daylight guardian, a favored Harem girl/boy, a provisioner who somehow knows just the right way to obtain valuable objects, a storyteller that still manages to be entertaining to a centuries old audience, a smith capable of working dragonscale and adamantine, etc. Such individuals are often payed well with coin, largely to prevent other members of the Necrocracy from stealing their services at a better rate.

The Necrocracy itself isn't one monumental block of vampires and only vampires. Many creatures that would have been hunted and killed two centuries ago find that they fit in quite comfortably to the lower ranks of the necrocrat hierarchy- even if they aren't quite dead yet. While the cost to eat a living mortal is quite high (a mortal produces quite a lot of blood over its lifetime) but fresh and still fleshy bodies are always in reasonably steady supply.

Considering that I had intended to start the party at level ~6, they'd be firmly in the realm of either 'important renegade' or 'valued Talent'. Particularly since I'd like to encourage people to make... interesting character designs.

Err... That was quite a lot longer than I intended.

[Criptfeind]

Describing the lower caste as cattle who survive by selling their blood brings up a question from me: Does the original base of the economy (IE: most people farming I guess in a generic medieval setting) still exist and this blood tax lays on top, or has that been supplanted somehow, leaving this massive glut of unskilled labor that has no where to turn other then selling their blood?

[wierd]

In this hypothetical setting, would it be illegal to be a mortal wizard specializing in studying living flesh / performing horrible magical research on cultured tissues?

I ask that, because the obvious way to get rich quick is to produce an abomination in a vat that produces copious amounts of blood.  Say, cultured from the wizard's own flesh, just for this purpose.

(I dont know if your setting is based in a game system featuring 'vivomancy' or not, but some systems do in fact have it as a school of magic)

[Harry Baldman]

Describing the lower caste as cattle who survive by selling their blood brings up a question from me: Does the original base of the economy (IE: most people farming I guess in a generic medieval setting) still exist and this blood tax lays on top, or has that been supplanted somehow, leaving this massive glut of unskilled labor that has no where to turn other then selling their blood?

I imagine a necropolis is like a medieval city - while it benefits very directly from the excruciating system of farming required to feed all of its living citizenry, no farming goes on within the city itself. And since serfdom was pretty horrible historically even without being run by undead monsters, you can only imagine what it'd be like in service to a necropolis.

[wierd]

Which is why I could definitely see a very valuable market for vivomancers. (Specifically, people who create (and maintain) a soulless husk-copy of you in a tank, fed on garbage and refuse, for the exclusively sole purpose of providing blood for the tax.)

When you can literally create something that "shits gold", it throws a big monkey wrench in the economy though-- so I also see where it would be forbidden to anyone but the elite.

It need not even be a complete copy of you to suffice either-- whole blood is produced from bone marrow. A big tank filled with twisted, gnarly-unnatural bone tissue filled with bone marrow cranking out biologically identical blood to your own would suffice.

It might be part of the glue that binds old-economy (tank abberations need foodstuffs to produce blood) with new economy (ever increasing populations of lich lords and rewarded underlings need ever increasing supplies of blood to survive). 

[NJW2000]

Undead thrall agricultural workers/serfs are forcing human peasants into the cities and into the blood market? This would mirror the Agricultural and industrial revolutions that took place in England.

Lower-quality bloods are used for an administrative half-caste: (non-vampire undead, vampire-human offsprings, whatever)

Vivomancy would be something like the Great Migration, Green Revolution and the Agricultural Revolution rolled into one: likely a source of conflict if it existed.


Gosh. When I have some free time, I definitely want to do some worldbuilding of my own.