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[Rolan7]

I know this is approaching tricky ground, so I'm not going to say much.  I disagree.  Pragmatists can get along with anyone, but a generous person shouldn't support a callous murderer just because they're both PCs.  It should be a source of IC tension - which was done well, in my first real 3.5 experience.  My druid was exalted and the bard was secretly evil.  Literal devil-worshiper, only helping at Asmodeus's will and to obtain knowledge.  Acquired the Book of Vile Darkness, even.  So my druid tried to steal and destroy it...  failed...  And we left it at that.  The bard knew my druid knew, and my druid knew that the main quest was too important to press the issue further.

Notably, my druid eventually fell from exalted status, discarding good as naive.  He became a pragmatic true-neutral politician, willing to associate with the best of the worst as he led a band of survivors across the desert (as an NPC, but that's mostly coincidental).

So it's fine to consort with other alignments (unless you're a paladin), but it's lazy to just ignore them.  IC issues can be opportunities, if handled maturely.  Which, heh, is probably why chaotic evil is so commonly a no-go.

[Jimmy]

Actually, it helped that my True Neutral Wizard character was the de facto leader of the party, since her alignment could operate with most everyone's individual goals. She quite happily murdered an entire platoon of dwarven prison guards with the Chaotic Evil Fighter to break out his buddy from lockup. She gladly assisted the Neutral Good Cleric with obtaining and destroying an artefact of immense evil power from an abandoned temple for the good of the people. She was always there to unite and focus the group's attention on a common goal, or split up the group into units that could operate within their own sphere of morality.

I don't think it's so much a case of ignoring your character's alignment for the sake of the game. It's more about having players who can know that someone else at the table is doing something their character's morality doesn't agree with, and not pick a fight over it. Some players feel a constant need to make their character the centre of attention, to the exclusion of everyone else's fun. I guess I've just been lucky, or perhaps more appropriately I've been selective enough in choosing who I invite to my table, that it's not been an issue in our group. YMMV depending on the local pool of players, however. Sometimes you just get a drama queen who'd rather let the whole world burn before his Mary-Sue loses part of the limelight.

[Rolan7]

That sounds pretty reasonable.  Though if the neutral good cleric knew about the guard-murder...  eh, YMMV I suppose.

I more wanted to share the old story, I guess.  In fact I'll elaborate on the end:  We were fighting a demon (?) from the Far Realms maybe, pretty heinous either way.  I think Chaotic Evil, but maybe more like Chaotic Blue.  The... chaotic neutral mummy (the spell screwed up) and the lawful evil bard (waaaait wait, what?  How was a bard lawful?  Maybe neutral evil)...

Anyway they sacrificed themselves to kill and seal the entity so my exalted neutral-good druid could survive and carry on the fight.  It was a touching moment.  And as my druid swam back to his people, he politely tendered his resignation from the exalted contract (which was a pretty big deal with level 10 Vow of Poverty).  He addressed the god of unicorns "If they are evil, and yet done more for this world than you...  Maybe it takes all types." 

And so he returned to the Everfree Forest, under siege by an undead empire, and offered amnesty to the dark fey and evil druids.  Any who would join the resistance were welcome...  And so, many traps were set.  And then the populace, mostly chaotic good fey, were evacuated.  Thanks largely to the efforts wicked.

Which was ironic, since that turnabout was based on deception.  The mummy *wanted* to die in glorious battle, and was overjoyed to reach Limbo.  He refused resurrection, and probably ceased to exist shortly after (or hell, before?) arriving.

And Asmodeus's bard...  Didn't die at all.  That plot thread was never fully resolved, but through OOC I knew that he survived and left.  Apparently his mission was successful.  Presumably the destruction of the demon.  But turning the world's most powerful exalted druid to pragmatism... couldn't have hurt.

Apologies, apparently I didn't feel like sleeping.  But I probably should.

But uh.  If anyone has equipment suggestions for a Shadowrun 5th edition Adept with 50k to spend, that'd be appreciated.
I went with:

Spoiler: NO PEEK, GROUP (click to show/hide)

A Attributes
B Magic (6 magic, 1 active skill at 4)
C Skills (28/2) (Both group points in Stealth)
D Money (50k)
E Metatype Human (1)

My character looks like Elrond, and is an elf poser (human who pretends to be an elf).  I'd like to use a pistol primarily, a bow for stealth, and probably unarmed for melee.  In other words, a mix of Elrond and Agent Smith.

I'm not apologizing

Advice on specific equipment and adept powers would be much appreciated.  I'm getting tricked out shades (including low-light vision to better pass as an elf), and the crown is a set of trodes for direct neural interface.
Strength would be a priority for the bow, except apparently strength isn't used for unarmed attacks at all?  So I'll probably drop strength for agility, and load the bow with chemical arrows instead of going for damage.

I kinda wish I had more edge, but *something* needed to be priority E.  My character should have a decent (medium) lifestyle, and there's plenty of cool stuff to spend on.  A disguise kit, for one thing...  Being an elf isn't easy for a human.

[Jimmy]

Actually that's a really good story! I especially like how your group's actions (even if they did have self-serving reasons for doing them) ended up making a significant difference to the path your character took in their story.

I'm looking forward to the next few sessions of my campaign. The group's about to head into a nation devoted to worshipping Asmodeus. They know that slaves are common, but they don't yet realise how hard life will be for them when they're not worshippers. Obviously the guard keep Law and Order by forbidding outsiders from carrying weapons. They forbid carrying holy symbols of other deities. They forbid unlicensed arcane magic. They forbid all poisons, including alcohol. They forbid sexual relations except between married men and women, and only marriages conducted by a priest of Asmodeus are recognised as legitimate.

Any other suggestions to really make this place a draconian dystopia of Lawful Evil?

[NJW2000]

Special taxes. For not being worshippers of Asmodeus. For not being worshippers of Asmodeus and wanting to go over bridges. For not being worshippers of Asmodeus and wanting to use roads that go over bridges.

More licences.

Forbidden to talk to non-officials, i.e. common people.
Clothing and armour restrictions.
Having to wear (and pay for) special badges that say "outsider".

Having to report to officials every twenty-four hours they are in the country.
Forbidden to have more than a certain amount of money as non-worshippers.
Forbidden to have less than a certain amount of money as non-worshippers.
Cannot spend more than a certain amonut in one place. Cannot carry more than a certain amount of food as outsiders.

Harsh curfews, obviously.
Large parts of the city are forbidden to outsiders.
Laws about personal appearance + grooming e.g. hair length, beard size, etc.

[scriver]

Illegal to not now to priests of Admodeus when they pass.

Illegal for non-worshippers to talk in the presrnce of or look at priests of Asmodeus. Have every state official be an ordained clerg of Asmodeus.

[wierd]

Impose legal requirement that all marriages performed in the region be ordained by clergs of asmodeus, and that lesser demon minions of asmodeus shall have right of prima nocta, if they choose, from among those that refuse to worship asmodeus. The penalty for refusal is permanent exile to the lesser hells. Marriages so officiated will require the consensual 'blessing' of such a minion, who shall act as godparent, by law. Any children produced from these unions shall be testaments to the rule of asmodeus in the material planes-- destruction of one without a proper order from the court of asmodeus is punishable by similar exile. Those exiled will be "fortunate" if they become mere slaves; They become the legal property of either the legally recognized godparent, OR, are assigned as property as deemed appropriate by the court of asmodeus, depending on circumstance.

(You said lawful evil. You got it. In a decade or two, this should result in a very, very fertile ground for story. Nothing says "embodiment of evil" quite like corrupting an entire people's first born generation. Naturally, since this ONLY applies to those that REFUSE to worship Asmodeus, the number of such couplings will be small, [and the number of godparents that refuse the right will be smaller still], but will neatlly explain exactly what kind of hell "slaves" live in.)


For added "joy" in the realm, The clerical rule of the region requires a degree of spiritual perfection unattainable even by the most devout of holy paladins, and describes *ALL THOSE THAT FAIL TO MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS* as "condemned sinners." It is from these ranks that the devout of Asmodeus are called to service, having, by nature, already fallen from grace by the holy decree of the Pact Primeval (which grants him the role of being said arbiter), and postpone their ultimate fate in the hells through "alternative service."

[SOLDIER First]

Actually that's a really good story! I especially like how your group's actions (even if they did have self-serving reasons for doing them) ended up making a significant difference to the path your character took in their story.

I'm looking forward to the next few sessions of my campaign. The group's about to head into a nation devoted to worshipping Asmodeus. They know that slaves are common, but they don't yet realise how hard life will be for them when they're not worshippers. Obviously the guard keep Law and Order by forbidding outsiders from carrying weapons. They forbid carrying holy symbols of other deities. They forbid unlicensed arcane magic. They forbid all poisons, including alcohol. They forbid sexual relations except between married men and women, and only marriages conducted by a priest of Asmodeus are recognised as legitimate.

Any other suggestions to really make this place a draconian dystopia of Lawful Evil?

I don't see anything requiring the men and women to be married to each other.

[Rolan7]

I suggest a rigid caste system.  So there are menial workers akin to slaves, but also "untouchables" that even the other slaves look down on.  The Nine Hells are rigidly casted, on top of devils being strictly organized by rank (promotions are possible, but transform them to different "types").

...Oops, I took "draconic" literally.  But maybe you can use it anyway:  Some of the castes could be mostly dragonkin.  Sorcerers, artisans, industrialists etc.  Basically the "middle class" between metahuman laborers and devilkin cleric-theocrats.  Blue and green dragons are Lawful Evil.
There could be tension there... or maybe not, since they're lawful.  Depends on how much tithe is demanded of the dragonkin, I suppose.

It's an interesting concept, because devils can be really... hospitable.  They do prefer to acquire souls willingly, after all.  High-level souls are worth a *lot* more, too.  It's possible that the party could have a nice time, if they're willing to ignore the plight of their fellow metahumans.

[highmax28]

Decided what my party is gonna go through when we jump out of Curse of Strahd for a bit.

The party has already fucked over the world's timeline, making it so much worse, so a time traveller or a clairvoyant (probably the latter) comes along and says in order to prevent a world ending disaster, they have to kill Certain people as the party tries to prevent the timeline from getting worse.

This includes a cast of characters who include (since this is taking place in the past of another campaign)

- the father of the most horrible tiefling who ever lived
- the King of the wood elves who attempts a genocide on the dwarves (since they messed up the timeline, he now succeeds)
- someone who will gain the power to destroy the entire plane
- a high elf who tries to ascend to lichdom
- an Orc warchief who's grandchild would attempt to recreate the goblin and Orc alliance that almost conquered the world
- a high elf pirate who gets cursed, and his sons would later manifest into the creation of Leviathan
- an abused half elf child who grows up to blockade the ocean and murders hundreds

The last two actually happens to cause the most impact, because it would cause their continent to be permanently trapped, and would lead to a huge war that ravages the continent over resources and land

[Rolan7]

I hate to do this, but I'm still eager for some advice for building this Shadowrun 5e character...  Not especially minmaxy (I'd ask somewhere else).  More like basic advice.  It is our first try at the system, but I'm the most likely to be engaged in melee (rigger drones aside).  I specifically want a *decent* character. 

Spoiler: NO PEEK, GROUP (click to show/hide)

A Attributes
B Magic (6 magic, 1 active skill at 4)
C Skills (28/2) (Both group points in Stealth)
D Money (50k)
E Metatype Human (1)

My character looks like Elrond, and is an elf poser (human who pretends to be an elf).  I'd like to use a pistol primarily, a bow for stealth, and probably unarmed for melee.  In other words, a mix of Elrond and Agent Smith.

I'm not apologizing

Advice on specific equipment and adept powers would be much appreciated.  I'm getting tricked out shades (including low-light vision to better pass as an elf), and the crown is a set of trodes for direct neural interface.
Strength would be a priority for the bow, except apparently strength isn't used for unarmed attacks at all?  So I'll probably drop strength for agility, and load the bow with chemical arrows instead of going for damage.

I kinda wish I had more edge, but *something* needed to be priority E.  My character should have a decent (medium) lifestyle, and there's plenty of cool stuff to spend on.  A disguise kit, for one thing...  Being an elf isn't easy for a human.

I still want advice about equipment and powers.  I assume I just have 6 magic so 6 PP, I'm not sure it's possible to exceed that on creation.  I assume Wired Reflexes Improved Reflexes is a priority despite the cost, because it means acting significantly faster.  Mystic Armor also seems like a common pick, due to it stacking with normal armor (though I doubt we'll fight *powerful* enemies in the astral plane). 

That said, I think I'll take Killing Hands for 0.5.  I'd normally tend toward nonlethal, but my understanding is that doesn't stack with lethal like in 3.5e.  I mean for maluses, but not for unconsciousness...  Also, this way I can punch hostile spirits if such a thing comes up.

Other than that...  I was leaning towards Attribute Boost, but I thought it could be applied to a chosen attribute on activation.  Seeing that it cannot, and knowing that it doesn't affect limits, Improved Physical Attribute looks better (also simpler).

So that's Improved Reflexes, Killing Hands, Improved Physical Attribute, and Mystic Armor.  With a budget of 6 I guess.  I feel like I should have *something* with a drain, unless I want to dump willpower...  Heck maybe I *should* dump willpower.  My character is obsessed with pretending to be an elf, after all.  I should probably put a little into Kinesics to improve my disguise checks.

Edit:  Sidenote:  Our new GM quietly muttered "fuckin christ" when he saw my avatar.  I'm still not apologizing 8D

[Mini]

It's just the proficiency bonus. I suppose Wizards decided to assume that everybody is proficient in what they are casting, which does make a degree of sense.

Incidentally, I thought they had done the same for unarmed strikes, since nobody specifically gets proficiency in them and they got errated out of the weapons table (even though that is the only place in the PHB where the damage they do is), but then there is a feat (Tavern Brawler) and a spell (Alter Self) which both give you proficiency in them, so we have another 3.5-alike "monks aren't proficient in their primary weapon" debacle.

[Neonivek]

In 5e everyone has a universal proficiency bonus that can apply to many stats.

[Neonivek]

So if it just says proficiency bonus, add the proficiency bonus because it doesn't mean a particular proficiency bonus?

Ok here is how it works... Let us take a Wizard and assume it is level 5

Level 5 wizards have a +3 proficiency bonus

They also have a: Intelligence and Wisdom proficiency

Anytime they would make a Intelligence or Wisdom check... they get a +3 ontop of whatever their attribute bonus is.

If a wizard had to make a dexterity check... they do not gain this proficiency bonus.

[Kadzar]

So if it just says proficiency bonus, add the proficiency bonus because it doesn't mean a particular proficiency bonus?

Ok here is how it works... Let us take a Wizard and assume it is level 5

Level 5 wizards have a +3 proficiency bonus

They also have a: Intelligence and Wisdom proficiency

Anytime they would make a Intelligence or Wisdom check... they get a +3 ontop of whatever their attribute bonus is.

If a wizard had to make a dexterity check... they do not gain this proficiency bonus.

Well, the first part is right, though I will say it doesn't matter what your class is; if you're a level 5 anything, you have a +3 proficiency bonus (there's a table near the front of the PHB that gives the proficiency bonus per level, and also in the class by level table for each class). Even if you're multiclassed, you still have the same proficiency bonus per level as everyone else.

But, for the second thing, wizards have proficiency in Intelligence and Wisdom saving throws. Not checks (at least, not all checks). Checks in 5e are used for skills. Usually you add your proficiency bonus to ability checks when you have proficiency in relevant skill (and, in play, most DMs will probably just call this a skill check, rather than calling out a specific ability and playesr asking if a certain skill applies like they do in the book examples). So a wizard might gain a proficiency bonus to make a dexterity check if they have a skill like Acrobatics (probably picked up from their background, since they can't get it from wizard). Also, tool proficiencies can be added to certain checks, though I'm not sure if the rules specify what ability checks to use with them.