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[Neonivek]

And I can't help but get the feeling that the Base Summoner isn't going to ever get anything new, since the Unchained Summoner has received much more love since it came out. U-Summoner even has specific archetypes the Base one doesn't have access to. Much more flavourful, as well, with its eidolon subtypes.

That is because unlike most DM's irrational dislike of the Unchained classes...

The Unchained Summoner is much more balanced then the broken summoner... and the Unchained Summoner is meant to be an outright replacement. Unlike the other's "Spruce up".

I'd extent that to all the unchained but I don't want to be bogged down in arguments right now. Suffice it to say, I dislike it when DMs ban unchained classes for no good reason.

[BlackFlyme]

My DM's rationalization is that the Unchained book is actually a sneak-peek for Pathfinder 2.0

And because Rogues getting Dex to damage is beyond broken, apparently. Even more so since it also increases when wielding a weapon with two hands, like Strength. Even though there are literally only three weapons that can be finessed and used in two hands.

[Neonivek]

My DM's rationalization is that the Unchained book is actually a sneak-peek for Pathfinder 2.0

And because Rogues getting Dex to damage is beyond broken, apparently.

Sorry the Bees again!

[BlackFlyme]

At least Pathfinder is a little more forgiving, with fewer enemies immune to sneak attacks. Getting into position is still a pain in the ass though, and if one of the hard-hitters in the party gets to go first, you might not have the opportunity to flank an enemy. Though the Agile enchantment only costs a +1, and it's not like there aren't feats to get Dex to Damage anyways.

Overall, I'd say that Unchained is an improvement to various classes. I fail to see the "sneak peek to PF2.0" bit, though. Nowhere is that stated or implied, to my knowledge.

Cleaning up Barbarian Rage Powers and the common problem of dying when Rage runs out or if you are knocked unconscious.

Making the Monk a proper Full-BAB/D10HD class, rather than being a sometimes-full-BAB class, while getting some cool Ki Powers and more combat versatility with Style Strikes.

Cleaning up Rogue Talents, though Signature Skills vary from useless to awesome. Intimidate is probably my favourite one.

The Summoner has been brought in line, with fewer evolution points, Eidolons getting subtypes for extra flavour, and a revised spell list. There's going to be a few subtypes added as well. I know there's a new one from Blood of Shadows. The Shadow Eidolon, of course. Ultimate Intrigue will also add a Fey Eidolon. Which is interesting.

[My Name is Immaterial]

Isn't Unchained just Paizo's response to 5e? They needed to keep people interested in their product, so, a few months before 5e released, they announced Unchained.

[Neonivek]

Isn't Unchained just Paizo's response to 5e? They needed to keep people interested in their product, so, a few months before 5e released, they announced Unchained.

I think that is more a coincidence.

[BlackFlyme]

It's more to address the common complaints people make about the four classes altered in the book.

Some Barbarian/Rogue talents were poorly worded or weren't worth taking. People complain that the Rogue is underpowered, and the Barbarians tend to die when Rage runs out, since their Con buff didn't count as temporary HP. Part of the Rogue issue is people not realizing they can get Sneak Attack on every hit, not just once per round.

The Summoner had a spell-list better than other 0-6 casters, and Eidolons were very powerful with the sheer number of Evo Points they got. Every Eidolon tended to reach end-game as, to paraphrase the developers, a beast with ten tentacles and two butts.

The Monk is the Monk. A frontline fighter with only decent HP and BAB and didn't actually have proficiency with Monk Weapons.

[highmax28]

It's more to address the common complaints people make about the four classes altered in the book.

Some Barbarian/Rogue talents were poorly worded or weren't worth taking. People complain that the Rogue is underpowered, and the Barbarians tend to die when Rage runs out, since their Con buff didn't count as temporary HP. Part of the Rogue issue is people not realizing they can get Sneak Attack on every hit, not just once per round.

The Summoner had a spell-list better than other 0-6 casters, and Eidolons were very powerful with the sheer number of Evo Points they got. Every Eidolon tended to reach end-game as, to paraphrase the developers, a beast with ten tentacles and two butts.

The Monk is the Monk. A frontline fighter with only decent HP and BAB and didn't actually have proficiency with Monk Weapons.

Wasn't that a thing from South Park? The multiple butt things?

Either way, the fact of the eidolon being an ungodly powerful monster, and some of the archetypes allowing you to make your eidolon A FUCKING SEA MONSTER was terrifying. I was lucky I killed it so quickly in that fight with the two level 20 summoners because he redirected all damage from him to his eidolon. Apparently, it didn't have the 200-300hp everyone thoguht it would, and we must have killed it rather quickly, because I blasted him twice, the gunslinger shot him about 24+ times (several being critical hits), and he died on the first hit of a swashbuckler stabbing him once and the bonus to damage killed him.

This is also why I like to say what the enemy looks like after every hit in games I run. I usually tell the party when they hit the 50% mark and the 10% mark by how badly wounded they look

[Arx]

So, build question: As a level one fighter, I'm currently specced into ranged combat reasonably heavily. There's a level up on the horizon, though, which I could either use to go more into ranged with Deadly Aim, or work on melee a bit by taking Power Attack into Cleave next level. It's pretty tempting, since with a composite longbow ranged and melee combat stats do overlap, and it would give more options for some of the urban environment fighting we're doing. It'd also be convenient for the amount of time I spend meatshielding the squishy spellcasters, and make slightly more use of my relatively formidable 19AC. It also provides feats to take while I wait for my BAB to increase for things like Manyshot. Oh, and I have the Fencer trait, which is pretty neat.

On the other hand, jack of all trades, master of none, and it's obviously suboptimal to be mediocre at a lot of things.

[Jimmy]

Properly specced Fighters are gods of ranged combat. And in Pathfinder, there's a huge amount of stuff you'll fight that have "Nope-Nope-F*ck-Nope" abilities that work in melee. If you like your character and don't want them dying as to face successively more dangerous enemies, attacking from range is the way to go. There's also something intensely gratifying about putting an arrow through something's eye socket from a good 500 feet away.

[highmax28]

Your spell casters should consider casting mount and mount communal to provide meat shields. It also allows you to keep being a ranged fighter as well

[Jimmy]

As a DM, I would rule that casting Mount to summon a horse would cause it to react as an ordinary animal would respond to combat, i.e. run away as fast as possible from whatever threatens it. I'd probably have it make an overrun attack vs. any PC that was in its path too. I'd require a Handle Animal check to actually cause it to remain in place, DC 25 for pushing it to attack. A clever PC would need to realize they could technically command it to simply stay in place with a DC 10 check, however, since that's part of the riding package, though it wouldn't threaten or attack if it did so.

[Sirus]

Don't such spells usually require things to be summoned in a place you can see? If you can already see inside your opponent's ribcage they probably aren't a threat anymore (undead notwithstanding).

[SOLDIER First]

One would hope there isn't also a "summon weapon" spell or somesuch, because if you were to be able to do the same with a greatsword..

[Jimmy]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Conjuration

Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling); create objects or effects on the spot (creation); heal (healing); bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or forms of energy to you (summoning); or transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation). Creatures you conjure usually- but not always- obey your commands.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

The creature or object must appear within the spell's range, but it does not have to remain within the range.