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[Dorsidwarf]

I can't comprehend how the BBEG having a reinforced anti-teleport zone around his Fortress of Doom and Razorblades is somehow "unfair" if you want to use teleport to jump back to his throne room, beat him up, 'port out, rinse, repeat.

Because your limiting the Player's options.

You're limiti the players options to not let them build a nuclear warhead too, or when you tell them that they should stop being Dockyard Mafia and go stop BBEG before he blows a continent off the planet, or when the noble they beat up sends assassination squads after them, or when they want to go wenching and you point-blank refuse.

In fact, the DM really has two roles.
First, to structure the game world to provide something for the players to do
Second, to limit what the players can do in order to make the game more fun for the players.

[nullBolt]

I can't comprehend how the BBEG having a reinforced anti-teleport zone around his Fortress of Doom and Razorblades is somehow "unfair" if you want to use teleport to jump back to his throne room, beat him up, 'port out, rinse, repeat.

Because your limiting the Player's options.

You're limiti the players options to not let them build a nuclear warhead too, or when you tell them that they should stop being Dockyard Mafia and go stop BBEG before he blows a continent off the planet, or when the noble they beat up sends assassination squads after them, or when they want to go wenching and you point-blank refuse.

In fact, the DM really has two roles.
First, to structure the game world to provide something for the players to do
Second, to limit what the players can do in order to make the game more fun for the players.

I think Neo is taking the piss.

[Neonivek]

Not so much taking the piss as explaining the idea behind it.

[Flying Dice]

I can't comprehend how the BBEG having a reinforced anti-teleport zone around his Fortress of Doom and Razorblades is somehow "unfair" if you want to use teleport to jump back to his throne room, beat him up, 'port out, rinse, repeat.

Because your limiting the Player's options.

You're limiti the players options to not let them build a nuclear warhead too¹, or when you tell them that they should stop being Dockyard Mafia and go stop BBEG before he blows a continent off the planet², or when the noble they beat up sends assassination squads after them³, or when they want to go wenching and you point-blank refuse⁴.

In fact, the DM really has two roles.
First, to structure the game world to provide something for the players to do
Second, to limit what the players can do in order to make the game more fun for the players.

1. False equivalence. D&D has clearly delineated rules for teleportation &c., and scry-and-fry is a classic tactic for half-decent wizards. That's nothing at all like the party in the fantasy adventure managing to assemble a functioning nuclear warhead with medieval or Renaissance-era tech. If the BBEG is a high-level spellcaster? Sure. But if it ain't, why the fuck does he have defenses appropriate for one other than "bluh blah I'm too lazy to deal with consequences of my own planning".

2. Not the same thing. That's you railroading the players into something they don't want to do rather than telling them flat-out that some of their skills are worthless because you said so.

3. That's a natural consequence of player actions. Likewise, not the same thing.

4. Also not at all the same thing. Unless it was genuine and non-creepy, but we all know how likely that is. Stopping magical-realm bullshit is well within any DM's reasonable purview.

The last bit I agree with. Except that you seem to be laboring under the misconception that what you/DM wants is what the players should want as well, and if they don't agree you should force them, even when there's no reason beyond "oh, that would make work for me because I planned out the entire adventure ahead of time without allowing for any deviation from the prescribed path through the narrative".

[Dorsidwarf]

I can't comprehend how the BBEG having a reinforced anti-teleport zone around his Fortress of Doom and Razorblades is somehow "unfair" if you want to use teleport to jump back to his throne room, beat him up, 'port out, rinse, repeat.

Because your limiting the Player's options.

You're limiti the players options to not let them build a nuclear warhead too¹, or when you tell them that they should stop being Dockyard Mafia and go stop BBEG before he blows a continent off the planet², or when the noble they beat up sends assassination squads after them³, or when they want to go wenching and you point-blank refuse⁴.

In fact, the DM really has two roles.
First, to structure the game world to provide something for the players to do
Second, to limit what the players can do in order to make the game more fun for the players.

1. False equivalence. D&D has clearly delineated rules for teleportation &c., and scry-and-fry is a classic tactic for half-decent wizards. That's nothing at all like the party in the fantasy adventure managing to assemble a functioning nuclear warhead with medieval or Renaissance-era tech. If the BBEG is a high-level spellcaster? Sure. But if it ain't, why the fuck does he have defenses appropriate for one other than "bluh blah I'm too lazy to deal with consequences of my own planning".

2. Not the same thing. That's you railroading the players into something they don't want to do rather than telling them flat-out that some of their skills are worthless because you said so.

3. That's a natural consequence of player actions. Likewise, not the same thing.

4. Also not at all the same thing. Unless it was genuine and non-creepy, but we all know how likely that is. Stopping magical-realm bullshit is well within any DM's reasonable purview.

The last bit I agree with. Except that you seem to be laboring under the misconception that what you/DM wants is what the players should want as well, and if they don't agree you should force them, even when there's no reason beyond "oh, that would make work for me because I planned out the entire adventure ahead of time without allowing for any deviation from the prescribed path through the narrative".

1. If the party is at a sufficient level for scry/die and group teleports to be standard things, whatever puppy-kicker they're up against has no excuse not to have TAD. Even if they're not a spell aster, they can still have TAD of some form, either by just buying the casting off an extraplanar wizard, petitioning their God, building the Fortress of Doom and Upturned Thumbtacks on a natural site where raw mana interferes with teleport, or having the Legendary Macgyffin generate the TAD itself( Any artefact-maker worth their salt would want to protect the bearer from scry/die.

2. It would be railroading if you just refused to process the "shakedown level 1 dockworker" or "break into big Tony's warehouse" actions. It's not railroading to point out that this is a bad use of time if the BBEG they know is trying to blow Gondowana off the mantle has already been established.

3.I don't see how the noble taking a reasonable action to get revenge on the band of muderhoboes is any different from the bad guy taking action to try and slow down the murderhoboes from murderhoboiing his evil ritual to open a rift to the Plane of Rusty Nails.
4. This was a pretty bad example, yeah.

What the DM want sand the players want should be reasonably aligned, actually. Otherwise either the DM or the players aren't going to enjoy themselves as much as they could. If either side thinks this is the case then they should meet up out of game, and talk about what the DM can do to fit the campaign towards the play style and goals of the players, and how the other players can work with the DM a little better.

For the second half of that statement you can fuck right off to hell and bounce in the beds, because equating "sometimes ye players must accept that there might be a counter to their plan" to "You're a terrible person who makes linear railway adventures and forces everyone to do what they want and only considers themselves" is Loud Whispers levels of wilful misunderstanding and flamebait.

[Jimmy]

I just finished fighting a red dragon!

The DM threw a good curveball at me when the dragon popped open an eversmoking bottle prior to the start of the fight. Total concealment, ack! Despite that, I managed to force it down to 1 Dex remaining, after which it used its massive fly speed to flee. Bad roll on the d4 sadly, I was banking on a better roll to finish it totally with my final hit and really should have used a Wall of Force to block the exits instead. Still got to loot its horde though, so not a total wash. Hopefully it'll show up with friends next time and we can go for round 2!

I'm amused watching those who get upset over one encounter, thinking I'm doing it wrong. Play how you want to play. I had a great time tonight, and it was a nifty challenge to overcome. Now that it's out of the way for now, of course, I can continue to provide Haste and tactical support to the party instead of going toe to toe with the big boss. I'd much prefer a good dungeon crawl where you fight enemies in a 10 ft. by 10 ft. corridor, have the rogue scouting for traps, and kick open the door to see what horrible creature's on the other side.

[Harry Baldman]

"After bravely vanquishing the dragon, you find its priceless horde composed of 400 orc light infantry, 300 orc skirmishers, 240 goblin wolf cavalry, 60 goblin wolf-mounted wizards, 100 hill giant heavy troops and 20 troll auxiliaries. Roll initiative."

Actually, are there any spells in D&D that would let you safely store a horde in a hoard? Seems like exactly the sort of thing a high-level evil wizard would keep around as a backup plan.

[Jimmy]

Craft a magical trap of Mad Monkeys. Instant monkey horde.

[Bohandas]

Actually, are there any spells in D&D that would let you safely store a horde in a hoard? Seems like exactly the sort of thing a high-level evil wizard would keep around as a backup plan.

I think there was a spell that temporarily animated terracotta warriors

[SOLDIER First]

Bag of Holding?

[Arx]

Bag of Holding?

They'll suffocate after ten minutes, and you can only get something like 250 cubic feet of stuff in per bag anyway.

[SOLDIER First]

Not if your horde is undead.

[Yoink]

Things always tend to get amusingly silly once the party acquires a bag of holding.    

Also, what Dorsi's saying makes sense to me.

[Arx]

Not if your horde is undead.

You raise a very valid point.

[SOLDIER First]

Or constructs, or in actuality a ton of Animated Armor/Weapons that act as a person.