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Any D&D/D20

Shadowrun

World of Darkness

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[Harry Baldman]

But the key is you didn't try and you expended no effort.

A good rule to check whether you should award XP for bypassing an obstacle (that is, if adventurer cred is the ruling interpretation of XP) is whether the bypasser could brag about the achievement afterward and impress somebody reasonably common without bending the truth. It covers a whole lot of categories of problem solving - through cleverness, toughness, strength, quickness, dumb luck and what have you.

For instance, if you get narrowly missed by a glass skull full of ravenous demonic worms that fell from the ceiling due to your incredible reflexes, you can tell as much to a man in a tavern and he'd be like 'good reflexes, mate'. If the skull hits you, but the worms fail to penetrate your rock-hard pectorals in their path to your heart before you scour them from your body, that's perfectly fine to tell people as well. But if the skull hits you, you get a demonic worm infestation and the entire party takes a short rest while you get dewormed by the cleric, that doesn't reflect well at all on you. So no XP in the latter case. Same thing if a set of demonic worms burrow through your eardrums and lay eggs in your brain, causing you to slice the wizard in half with your greataxe because he looks like a monster suddenly - not something you can brag about in a tavern, that.

[GiglameshDespair]

Depends how well liked the wizard was, perhaps.

[Kadzar]

But the key is you didn't try and you expended no effort.

A good rule to check whether you should award XP for bypassing an obstacle (that is, if adventurer cred is the ruling interpretation of XP) is whether the bypasser could brag about the achievement afterward and impress somebody reasonably common without bending the truth. It covers a whole lot of categories of problem solving - through cleverness, toughness, strength, quickness, dumb luck and what have you.

For instance, if you get narrowly missed by a glass skull full of ravenous demonic worms that fell from the ceiling due to your incredible reflexes, you can tell as much to a man in a tavern and he'd be like 'good reflexes, mate'. If the skull hits you, but the worms fail to penetrate your rock-hard pectorals in their path to your heart before you scour them from your body, that's perfectly fine to tell people as well. But if the skull hits you, you get a demonic worm infestation and the entire party takes a short rest while you get dewormed by the cleric, that doesn't reflect well at all on you. So no XP in the latter case. Same thing if a set of demonic worms burrow through your eardrums and lay eggs in your brain, causing you to slice the wizard in half with your greataxe because he looks like a monster suddenly - not something you can brag about in a tavern, that.

Sounds less like overcoming obstacles and more like accomplishing great deeds, which I am all in favor of. Rather than be encouraged to make things harder on themselves, or kill every single living thing in a dungeon like some sort of obsessive-compulsive sociopaths, players should be encouraged to think up creative ways to solve their problems, without having to worry that they might miss out on XP because they didn't encounter some pointless trap or monster. That's why I'm fond of early D&D's XP-for-gold system over the later emphasis on defeating monsters: it rewards results instead of adhering to a specific process.

Also, using an accomplishments based system adds in a unique way to put in more time pressure. Since you're going by overall impressive accomplishments rather than just beating an encounter, it makes sense that being able to beat a dungeon or whatever quicker than you'd expect would make the accomplishment more impressive. So an idea I had for when I run is that there'd be a certain amount of quickness XP for beating the dungeon, and that would go down each day. So when the spellcasters are down a few slots and say they want to rest for the day, I can say, "Sure, you can do that, it seems pretty safe right here. But that means you'll lose 5% bonus XP. Are you sure you don't want to press on a little while longer?"

[Rolan7]

But the key is you didn't try and you expended no effort.

A good rule to check whether you should award XP for bypassing an obstacle (that is, if adventurer cred is the ruling interpretation of XP) is whether the bypasser could brag about the achievement afterward and impress somebody reasonably common without bending the truth. It covers a whole lot of categories of problem solving - through cleverness, toughness, strength, quickness, dumb luck and what have you.

For instance, if you get narrowly missed by a glass skull full of ravenous demonic worms that fell from the ceiling due to your incredible reflexes, you can tell as much to a man in a tavern and he'd be like 'good reflexes, mate'. If the skull hits you, but the worms fail to penetrate your rock-hard pectorals in their path to your heart before you scour them from your body, that's perfectly fine to tell people as well. But if the skull hits you, you get a demonic worm infestation and the entire party takes a short rest while you get dewormed by the cleric, that doesn't reflect well at all on you. So no XP in the latter case. Same thing if a set of demonic worms burrow through your eardrums and lay eggs in your brain, causing you to slice the wizard in half with your greataxe because he looks like a monster suddenly - not something you can brag about in a tavern, that.

Isn't XP generally assigned to everyone in the party? The cleric or group deserves credit for healing that. Even just surviving it in the first place is impressive...

[Harry Baldman]

Isn't XP generally assigned to everyone in the party? The cleric or group deserves credit for healing that. Even just surviving it in the first place is impressive...

Do bear in mind that a cleric (and also a wizard, or a sorcerer or something of that nature) would presumably have a slightly different audience. So if he just cast Remove Disease (or Remove Curse, or some higher level alternative) or something they'd be like "yeah, sure, that's what you do in that case". But if he had to take up a giant needle or a fishing hook and spend the better part of an hour pulling devilish spawn from the flesh of his idiot compatriot, now that'd be something to brag about. Or if he had a clever deworming idea like, say, blowing a whole lot of holy incense into the bloody holes the worms left to make them come up for less sanctified air and then putting them all in a glass jar he was carrying, which he could then show off to people later.

Also, using an accomplishments based system adds in a unique way to put in more time pressure. Since you're going by overall impressive accomplishments rather than just beating an encounter, it makes sense that being able to beat a dungeon or whatever quicker than you'd expect would make the accomplishment more impressive. So an idea I had for when I run is that there'd be a certain amount of quickness XP for beating the dungeon, and that would go down each day. So when the spellcasters are down a few slots and say they want to rest for the day, I can say, "Sure, you can do that, it seems pretty safe right here. But that means you'll lose 5% bonus XP. Are you sure you don't want to press on a little while longer?"

"What? You mean you plopped yourselves down on the cave floor and rested for nine bloody hours while the necromancer was squatting down the hall doing the same? You damn muppets! That's not how real heroes do it! You have to charge in, show them who's boss! Steamroll those fools!"

[Kadzar]

Also, using an accomplishments based system adds in a unique way to put in more time pressure. Since you're going by overall impressive accomplishments rather than just beating an encounter, it makes sense that being able to beat a dungeon or whatever quicker than you'd expect would make the accomplishment more impressive. So an idea I had for when I run is that there'd be a certain amount of quickness XP for beating the dungeon, and that would go down each day. So when the spellcasters are down a few slots and say they want to rest for the day, I can say, "Sure, you can do that, it seems pretty safe right here. But that means you'll lose 5% bonus XP. Are you sure you don't want to press on a little while longer?"

"What? You mean you plopped yourselves down on the cave floor and rested for nine bloody hours while the necromancer was squatting down the hall doing the same? You damn muppets! That's not how real heroes do it! You have to charge in, show them who's boss! Steamroll those fools!"

Well, I mean it's one way to put in time pressure, especially if you're doing an open world game or something where it feels forced to put in a time pressure in the setting. And even if you have natural time pressures, it's good to have a resource to limit rests other than rations (which quickly stop being a worry after, like level 1, if even then).

[Bohandas]

Also, using an accomplishments based system adds in a unique way to put in more time pressure. Since you're going by overall impressive accomplishments rather than just beating an encounter, it makes sense that being able to beat a dungeon or whatever quicker than you'd expect would make the accomplishment more impressive. So an idea I had for when I run is that there'd be a certain amount of quickness XP for beating the dungeon, and that would go down each day. So when the spellcasters are down a few slots and say they want to rest for the day, I can say, "Sure, you can do that, it seems pretty safe right here. But that means you'll lose 5% bonus XP. Are you sure you don't want to press on a little while longer?"

"What? You mean you plopped yourselves down on the cave floor and rested for nine bloody hours while the necromancer was squatting down the hall doing the same? You damn muppets! That's not how real heroes do it! You have to charge in, show them who's boss! Steamroll those fools!"

That brings up a good point regarding wizards and other full spellcasters supposedly being overpowered. A large portion of that is likely due to lazy DMs (and also lazy videogame adaptations) basically handwaving the rest requirement for re-preparing spells. They'll generally make you rest, but the dungeon isn't even partially repaired or restaffed while the PCs are slogging their way back to the inn or if the PCs instead try to sleep in the dungeon they aren't immediately apprehended and/or coup-de-graced, and in either case the villain's evil plan never advances. I've been on beach vacations that have been more urgently hurried than the way these people save the world.

[Neonivek]

Your forgetting Bohandas that there is a low level spell that immediately negates the "sleeping in the open" issue. In fact it can also can be used as a way of retreat.

The ONLY counter for a DM against that spell is a creature with a planar travel spell, meaning high level demons.

[Bohandas]

You need to be at least level 8 to use rope trick for that purpose; it doesn't last long enough otherwise. You also have to leave any bags of holding outside. And It may still be found by patrols wih the capacity to detect magic; divinations don't reach into the extradimensional space, but there's nothing about then not being able to detect the extradimensional space or the spell itself; furthermore even seeing into it may also be possible with the various spells specifically designed to look into portals and extradimensional spaces.

[Gentlefish]

You also have to leave any bags of holding outside.

What? No, they simply don't work within the rope trick. The only things that explode are portable holes and bags of holding.

[Bohandas]

Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.

[UXLZ]

Umm...

[Neonivek]

Ropetrick is its own demiplane

[Flying Dice]

The first point was correct in any case. Rope Trick is one of those caster things that's pretty stupid void of context, but which rarely comes up in game in a way that's actually overpowering.

Not to mention that it can't really be used as a Get Out of Encounter Free card, considering that you have to leave from the same place you entered eventually. If the enemy had anyone capable of knowing what you did, that's reason enough for the DM to have had them set up traps and prepared to ambush the party when they left.

[Gentlefish]

Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.

It's a vague warning at the very least. Errata confirmed that the only things that explode are bags of holding and portable holes. Other extradimensional spaces simply stop working when inside another e-d space.