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[Sirus]

Monks have been pretty badass for a while, I saw some vanilla 3rd ed builds that were completely broken into OP nightmares, I'm not current tho' because I haven't tried 5th and have no plans to start.

They've kind of always been superb evasion tanks, all the way back to AD&D.

Oddly, that runs squarely counter to what I'd always heard about Monks. I.e., that they were squishy, underpowered, lacked good abilities, and (for those who care about such things) were a bit of a token dash of Eastern mysticism in a generic Western setting.

Personally I couldn't care less about that last bit, but the other points still stand. I've tried to play Monks at least three times, but none of them were in games that lasted long enough to form an impression one way or the other.

[Criptfeind]

I'm not sure about vanilla. Like, yeah, certainly, you could get monks with super high AC and saves and such (although often with so much multiclassing that it's hardly recognizable as a phb monk) and sometimes they could even do good damage, the important context though is in before 4e with that amount of optimization and work literally anything becomes broken. Just normal monks were probably one of the weakest classes.

[NullForceOmega]

I find that the D&D community is divided on the class.

Against most physical attacking opponents the monk is really good at not getting hit and dealing a bunch of damage in return, against mages?  Not so much, anything with decent aoe or that hits automatically is going to be the bane of your existence.  So the type of campaign you're playing is going to color how you view the class.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

My monk definitely does not have subpar AC. I'm at 19 at level 4, and the potential for up to 23 without any magic. My damage output isn't great, but I can just stand there in a crowd of attackers burning their rounds while the rest of the party works.

And slow fall is so powerful that every level is going to escalate until I become effectively immune at around level 12, which is when terminal velocity can't overcome the damage reduction enough to kill me.

[IcyTea31]

The monk is the Magikarp of D&D 5e. At low levels, it is mincemeat. At high levels, it runs circles around everything. That's why people disagree on whether it's a "good" class.

[GiglameshDespair]

Everything could end up horribly broken in 3.5e (can't speak on 3e, never played it), though monks were one of the weakest classes all told. Perhaps the weakest of the PHB classes.

So as I've been playing a Monk in our B-Side campaign, I've come to a certain realization: I am goddamn invincible and only getting more so with every new level. Is Monk actually the most defensive class in 5e? I wasn't expecting it but I haven't had anybody land an attack roll on me in three sessions.

Monks are quite survivable in 5e, indeed. Dodge as a bonus action, Evasion and proficiency in all saving throws in the base monk path. If you're Open Hand, a touch of healing as well.

In the meatspace campaign I'm in, early on the monk got his shit kicked in throughly and constantly, but once we levelled up and Evasion started coming into play he was pretty untouchable by enemy AoE.

...Still not as tough as the Moon Druid, though, with his extra two beastshape HP bars.

[Gentlefish]

I remember the funniest broken/broken build was the truenamer.

Completely useless in every build except for one very specific build, and then it's completely game-breaking OP.

I wish I remember more on it than that. But it was hilarious.

[Grim Portent]

As I recall Truenamer needed to pass a skill check to use it's powers on targets, which got harder each time they tried on the same enemy. So they were a 'caster' class who could only cast on one foe so much, made worse by the skill DC being really high to start with so even with max skillranks they often couldn't do much, and this scaling got worse as levels went up.

Thing is was one of powers they got access to was at will Gate I think, which let you open a portal to another plane to call through allies, and you could make custom items that boosted skill checks which were really cheap. So a Truenamer with an item of +30 to Truenaming checks could spam their powers and gate in angels and demons at will once they reached the right level.

[Persus13]

Yeah, Monks got improved significantly from 3.5 to 5th. I find it odd that someone claimed they're poor against Mages, because with evasion, prof in Dex saves/high Wisdom, and their multiple attacks and mobility, they're really good at getting in close in without taking damage and then disrupting concentration.

[Criptfeind]

The truenamer thing sounds like the classic infinite wishes build/idea. Gate in infinite genies and wish all your problems away without doing any real work yourself. Just like real life, only it actually works in the game.

My monk definitely does not have subpar AC. I'm at 19 at level 4, and the potential for up to 23 without any magic. My damage output isn't great, but I can just stand there in a crowd of attackers burning their rounds while the rest of the party works.

Sounds like a duel welding Kensei? They certainly have better ac then most monks.

Yeah, Monks got improved significantly from 3.5 to 5th. I find it odd that someone claimed they're poor against Mages, because with evasion, prof in Dex saves/high Wisdom, and their multiple attacks and mobility, they're really good at getting in close in without taking damage and then disrupting concentration.

I believe the mention of them being weak to mages was in 3.5, where if you have 70 ac a t-rex probably can't chomp you, but fail an instant death save and rip.

[MrRoboto75]

As I recall Truenamer needed to pass a skill check to use it's powers on targets, which got harder each time they tried on the same enemy. So they were a 'caster' class who could only cast on one foe so much, made worse by the skill DC being really high to start with so even with max skillranks they often couldn't do much, and this scaling got worse as levels went up.

It was even worse than just that.  The skill DC scaled by challenge rating (of all things) times two, while skills generally only went up +1 per level.  So you actually got worse at truenaming as you leveled up, assuming on average you encounter enemies at your CR level.

[GiglameshDespair]

My monk definitely does not have subpar AC. I'm at 19 at level 4, and the potential for up to 23 without any magic. My damage output isn't great, but I can just stand there in a crowd of attackers burning their rounds while the rest of the party works.

Oh? What's your stats and build like?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

My monk definitely does not have subpar AC. I'm at 19 at level 4, and the potential for up to 23 without any magic. My damage output isn't great, but I can just stand there in a crowd of attackers burning their rounds while the rest of the party works.

Sounds like a duel welding Kensei? They certainly have better ac then most monks.

Oh? What's your stats and build like?

Lizardfolk Acolyte
Way of the Open Hand
Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 10
Unarmed
Base AC is 13 from natural armor.

[Persus13]

RAW Natural Armor and monk's defense bonus don't stack, but as long as your DM's okay with that its fine.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Yeah, that one just doesn't make sense. Natural shouldn't stack with armor of course, but I'm not wearing armor to begin with.