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World of Darkness

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[TWO CATATA]

I looked at the chechnya thing and I don't understand the fuss, I feel like they might have been overwhelmed by ignorant American university students that don't actually know just how serious the stuff out in the world that happens outside outside the sanitised version they get from CNN or whatever, religious hitsquads (some of them following Islam, some Christianity, all over the world this kind of thing happens, it just so happens that Islam is the only one that has religious officials, the Mutaween, SERIOUSLY ACTIVELY ENDORSING AND HAPPENING RIGHT NOW witch hunting and murder with the aid of Iran government etc at this moment in history) hunting down lesbian gay bisexual trans ETC people to kill is very much a thing, and instead of sticking heads in the sand and sweeping uncomfortable truths under the rug because we're too scared to look at them, what was made world of darkness so amazing, is that it never used to shy away from turning a grisly light on the monstrous aspects of real humanity, that was the whole depth to it, the Greek tragedy of it all that ultimately the vampires in their inhumanity are all acting in ways that reflect on humanity itself. That's the real message behind it all I think and what's GOOD about it, in that it lets people look at things they might otherwise be uncomfortable to think about, experience, talk about - safely.

http://www.sanguinus.org has been running for decades it might be worth checking out, I think Vampire the Masquerade (the new one seemed too Twilight/New Blood soap opera'y from what I read of it, more focus on petty drama and less plot.. but I haven't read the NEW REVISED NEW NOT REALLY NEW one etc it all gets a bit tiring) was made for the internet really, it's just no hassle with bots to keep track of blood scores and willpower and working out automatically if your RP action was successful or not based on what dice you have and the difficulty, it gives the opportunity to go into the story I think

[IronyOwl]

Did White Wolf HAVE a marketting department?

They sure as hell didn't have an editing department.


Five words. Title on the cover.  Can we screw it up? Yes we can!

[Cruxador]

When it was White Wolf, they only had the new and old WoD. The newer editions of those two editions are both more recent than the company's cessation of existence. The new "White Wolf" is just a department at Paradox whose job is licensing things to Onyx Path and collecting money for old books on DriveThruRPG.

the new one seemed too Twilight/New Blood soap opera'y from what I read of it

But then, the old one is all Anne Rice and bodice rippers. You're not going to get a vampire RPG inspired by high literature, no matter what you do it's gonna be inspired by vampire fiction.

[NullForceOmega]

I looked at the chechnya thing and I don't understand the fuss, I feel like they might have been overwhelmed by ignorant American university students that don't actually know just how serious the stuff out in the world that happens outside outside the sanitised version they get from CNN or whatever, religious hitsquads (some of them following Islam, some Christianity, all over the world this kind of thing happens, it just so happens that Islam is the only one that has religious officials, the Mutaween, SERIOUSLY ACTIVELY ENDORSING AND HAPPENING RIGHT NOW witch hunting and murder with the aid of Iran government etc at this moment in history) hunting down lesbian gay bisexual trans ETC people to kill is very much a thing, and instead of sticking heads in the sand and sweeping uncomfortable truths under the rug because we're too scared to look at them, what was made world of darkness so amazing, is that it never used to shy away from turning a grisly light on the monstrous aspects of real humanity, that was the whole depth to it, the Greek tragedy of it all that ultimately the vampires in their inhumanity are all acting in ways that reflect on humanity itself. That's the real message behind it all I think and what's GOOD about it, in that it lets people look at things they might otherwise be uncomfortable to think about, experience, talk about - safely.

I appreciate that you have an opinion on these topics, but I have stated multiple times that all of these outside issues do not belong in the PNP thread, we have functional politics threads for politics, this one is for games.  I also appreciate that you tried, poorly, to tie your statement to the subject, but this is not where that conversation will happen.

[TWO CATATA]

I appreciate that you have an opinion on these topics, but I have stated multiple times that all of these outside issues do not belong in the PNP thread, we have functional politics threads for politics, this one is for games.  I also appreciate that you tried, poorly, to tie your statement to the subject, but this is not where that conversation will happen.

1. Hi I'm new, I didn't know someone was shutting down discussion about that, I replied after someone else brought it up, that's a shame because these kind of things are really important to talk about, awwh. Sometimes avoiding talking about things leads to a situation where it comes to the point no one can, humanity loses...

2.  I appreciate you tried, poorly, to be insulting and patronising in your reply here, and imply, laughably, that I was not genuine in talking about the subject which is impossible to separate from talking about real world censorship, from a high horse that you have shown little but unwarranted self-importance (with an anime avatar, really) for a reason to talk down to people though. (No, I don't, that was really obnoxious and a great example of why the position of gatekeeper over discussions often often leads to megalomania.)

[scriver]

I don't think the Chechenya thing has come up before, since I have no idea what it's about. I think Omega was just speaking in general about non-rpg things.

I'm super curious about what Chechenya thing was now, though, if anyone wants to pm me.

[IcyTea31]

You'll get a much better response in the thread dedicated to European politics.

[scriver]

What? No, I'm well aware of the political situation in Chechenya. I assumed there was something involving White Wolf/World of Darkness that I didn't know, however. That's why I asked for a pm instead of taking up more space in this or another thread (and making another one for just this thing seemed unnecessary).

[Cruxador]

What? No, I'm well aware of the political situation in Chechenya. I assumed there was something involving White Wolf/World of Darkness that I didn't know, however. That's why I asked for a pm instead of taking up more space in this or another thread (and making another one for just this thing seemed unnecessary).

Googling "White Wolf Chechnya have me a pretty good article on it. The short version: They used the whole LGBT persecution thing as game lore by sticking vampires into it and people got mad. Also they used the word "controversial" even though it's pretty well verified, which implies that they show at least a partial support for Putin's denial in the face of the evidence. Personally, I think amateurish fucking around with modern politics is pretty on-brand, but then it's still not necessarily a good look.

I appreciate that you have an opinion on these topics, but I have stated multiple times that all of these outside issues do not belong in the PNP thread, we have functional politics threads for politics, this one is for games.  I also appreciate that you tried, poorly, to tie your statement to the subject, but this is not where that conversation will happen.

I don't agree that game lore, or even opinions of game lore, are "outside issues" with regards to role playing games. I also don't agree that game lore or White Wolf's choices in that arena would be on-topic in the political thread, and I don't think there's any real justification for that claim. Talking about the reality of the issue they based their event on might belong there, but nobody was doing that.

[NullForceOmega]

1. Hi I'm new, I didn't know someone was shutting down discussion about that, I replied after someone else brought it up, that's a shame because these kind of things are really important to talk about, awwh. Sometimes avoiding talking about things leads to a situation where it comes to the point no one can, humanity loses...

2.  I appreciate you tried, poorly, to be insulting and patronising in your reply here, and imply, laughably, that I was not genuine in talking about the subject which is impossible to separate from talking about real world censorship, from a high horse that you have shown little but unwarranted self-importance (with an anime avatar, really) for a reason to talk down to people though. (No, I don't, that was really obnoxious and a great example of why the position of gatekeeper over discussions often often leads to megalomania.)

If I believe that you are breaking the rules stated in the OP, then I will issue a warning, as stated in the OP.  If you give me attitude for that warning, I will not hesitate to report you, as the forum guidelines, specifically 1, 2 and 4, clearly support my position.  I will not issue another warning to you.  I will apologize for the specific phrasing of my warning, my use of the word "poorly" was out of line, and the result of twenty hours without sleep. The warning stands nonetheless.

Cruxador: I am not current on WoD's game lore, and had heard nothing about any of this until this morning, it still reeks of politics dragged into a discussion that has no need for them.  I will defer to you on the issues surrounding it as you have apparently been able to determine what the actual connection is.

Having looked further into this I am going to maintain my position regarding my previous warning.  The fact that White Wolf used this bit of modern political nastiness as a plot point does not mitigate that the way it was phrased by TWO CATATA is clearly inflammatory and outside this thread's scope.  Phrasing matters.

[Rolan7]

I vaguely referenced it in my post, complaining about their marketing department.  My bad.

[NullForceOmega]

Referencing it wasn't the problem, and you were completely okay in doing so, the rhetoric used in TWO CATATA's post is what I am considering inflammatory and unacceptable for this thread.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So as I've been playing a Monk in our B-Side campaign, I've come to a certain realization: I am goddamn invincible and only getting more so with every new level. Is Monk actually the most defensive class in 5e? I wasn't expecting it but I haven't had anybody land an attack roll on me in three sessions.

[NullForceOmega]

Monks have been pretty badass for a while, I saw some vanilla 3rd ed builds that were completely broken into OP nightmares, I'm not current tho' because I haven't tried 5th and have no plans to start.

They've kind of always been superb evasion tanks, all the way back to AD&D.

[Criptfeind]

Monks being a short rest class can highly skew their balance one way or another depending on how your game is run. If you can use patient defense every single turn as well as fueling your various other Ki abilities, they aren't too bad on the defense. But outside of that I think they are pretty mediocre at tanking. Worse AC then other tanking classes, needs 3 stats instead of 2, low hp, some capability to get resistances is good for tanking but not that impressive.

I'm sure you could come up with some really tanky shit using multiclassing and spells and splatbooks, but outside of that for me I'd say that Druids are easily the tankiest at low-mid levels, and then after that probably barbarians, although of course with barbarians you might run into the opposite issue that the monk does, if you have many little fights scattered throughout the day and run out of rage.