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[Kagus]

I played a polearm push-away master. Pretty fun unless your enemy has reach.

Theoretically, you should be able to do some dickery like 1) Hit opponent with an opportunity attack when they enter your reach [via Polearm Mastery], 2) Apply Trip Attack maneuver to the hit and, with some luck, knock the opponent prone, 3) Reduce opponent's speed to 0 for the rest of "the turn" [Sentinel].

Now they've fallen and they can't get up, at range even!


So, question... How ridiculous are mounted rogues using the presence of their mount to qualify for dealing sneak attack damage?

[Grim Portent]

If you absolutely must have advantage on Strength checks to be a grappler then barbarogue works fine. 5 levels of barbarian of your choice, 15 levels of rogue. Most reliable way of having advantage and the two classes have some stat overlap anyway (both like Dex and Con).

Would probably be Bearbarian and Swashbuckler myself. Tankier than other Barbarian subclasses and better at solo fights than other Rogues, but I could see a strong argument for other subclasses in campaigns with lots of stealth or small numbers of fights per day.

So, question... How ridiculous are mounted rogues using the presence of their mount to qualify for dealing sneak attack damage?

Eh, really they should be getting sneak attack off almost all the time anyway just from allies being near things, the mount doesn't really add anything they didn't already have.

[Kagus]

It does allow them to charge around and perform hit-and-run (thanks to the "free" disengage of the mount) sneak attacks on their own, however. It's mostly just ridiculous in the sense of saying "yes, this is my horse, he is your enemy" and then stabbing someone while they're distracted by the threatening equine.


And now for something completely different: Mounted Combatant feat states that you get advantage on melee attack rolls against anything smaller than your mount. You should, then, be able to fly over the battlefield on a giant bat or something (those damn bats again...) and launch Thorn Whip on someone down below. It's a melee spell attack, but it just happens to be delivered up to 30' away (60' if you've got Spell Sniper). Advantage on the attack roll, a hit pulls the creature up to 10' towards you (upwards in this case) without a save if they're Large or smaller. Free extra 1d6 damage, and fun for the whole family!

Yeah, pretty stupid and situational, but the mental image is great.

[Hanslanda]

Rogue riding a Trex. Then the whole 'this is your enemy' thing gets a lot less ridiculous.

Or take a page from Jurassic World. Awakened Deinonychus rogue riding a Tyrannosaurus and leap sneak attacking off it's back for grapple-murder.

[IcyTea31]

Is there actually an official way to make an awakened beast character? I'm not counting the Monstrous Races book as official.

[Grim Portent]

None that I'm aware of. Certainly not in 5e.

Closest would be 3e/3.5s Savage Species, but that was more for playing various monsters than awakened animals.

[pikachu17]

It does allow them to charge around and perform hit-and-run (thanks to the "free" disengage of the mount) sneak attacks on their own, however. It's mostly just ridiculous in the sense of saying "yes, this is my horse, he is your enemy" and then stabbing someone while they're distracted by the threatening equine.


And now for something completely different: Mounted Combatant feat states that you get advantage on melee attack rolls against anything smaller than your mount. You should, then, be able to fly over the battlefield on a giant bat or something (those damn bats again...) and launch Thorn Whip on someone down below. It's a melee spell attack, but it just happens to be delivered up to 30' away (60' if you've got Spell Sniper). Advantage on the attack roll, a hit pulls the creature up to 10' towards you (upwards in this case) without a save if they're Large or smaller. Free extra 1d6 damage, and fun for the whole family!

Yeah, pretty stupid and situational, but the mental image is great.

Doesn't Mounted Combatant work on melee weapon attacks? Also, doesn't something have to fall more than 10 feet to take falling damage?

[Kagus]

Mounted Combatant specifies "melee attack rolls", which means both melee spells and melee weapon attacks. I believe it specifically means "attack rolls associated with a melee usage" rather then "rolls associated with a melee attack", because the second definition could also then be applied to special melee attacks like grappling or shoving.

This does also mean that you could go Sorcerer and use distant spell to get advantageous rolls on touch spells on targets 30' away, you can ride a horse and Mr. Fantastic your way into a shocking grasp on someone 30 feet away (or 60' if you also have Spell Sniper, again).

Already this becomes fairly silly, since Mounted Combatant's advantage is clearly supposed to model the relative height advantage, but the real weirdness comes in when we involved familiars. Using your action and the familiar's reaction when the familiar is within 100' of you, you can cast a touch spell through the familiar. This is technically you casting the spell, since it's based on your spellcasting modifier and other applicable bonuses... But does that mean that the roll is then made with advantage because you have the Mounted Combatant feat? Despite your mount now being nowhere near either the target or the source?


So now we've moved from "you have an advantage because there is a horse near you" (Rogue distraction sneak attack) to "you have an advantage because you are on a horse" (mounted touch spells), and finally to "you have an advantage because there is a horse."

[pikachu17]

Terry Crews strikes again.
Or is it the other guy I'm thinking of?

[wierd]

Arent awakened creatures just animals that have their INT score pumped up, so that they can learn humanoid speech, and use items?

There are any number of ways to boost an INT score.  Enchantment, Curse, Disease (in some cases), Ritual consequence, even Potion (though this is temporary)


Here's a radical idea.   Uses Lost Tradition, to establish a major stat to be used for magic rolls instead of INT, CHA, or WIS.  Then, takes ritual casting feat.

Even without actually meeting INT requirements to permanently learn a language, an animal under the influence of Comprehend Languages  could read INT boosting books. Like this one. To accomplish this would require the Lost Tradition feat, so that a stronger base stat could be used in place of INT for the ritual, and for learning spells (so it can learn the ritual.) If done EVERY DAY, it will take only 3 weeks to perform the cumulative 24 hours of study needed for the permanent +2 INT increase, which is within the 6 week window.  Requires a mentor that is able to appropriate, or create, the needed wondrous item(s), and get the cycle going.  Could couple this with a circlet of +2 int, which is semi-permanent as long as it is worn.

Initiation of the cycle could be done with Dominate Monster, by a wizard with the ritual casting feat. (so he can control the animal to make it perform the Comprehend Languages ritual)  --- alternatively, produces a potion of comprehend languages, and feeds it to the creature.

The intent here is to induct the animal into the Lost Tradition magical education battery, which naturally raises its INT, allowing it to learn a language, and use more convenient stats for its spellcasting.

It's at east a start on an idea on how this could get started anyway.

[Trekkin]

Third-party content from two editions ago probably doesn't count as "official" though.

[wierd]

Even without lost tradition (which makes it easier...)

Potionized Comprehend Languages + the mentioned book, can give a neat +2 INT. It just makes it harder for the creature to learn the requisite magics needed to begin improving itself, rather than relying on its mentor.

[Trekkin]

Can you make potions of arbitrary spells in 5e? I seem to recall that you had to pick from the list they gave you, which from the SRD doesn't include Comprehend Languages.

[wierd]

That is a problem. 

Can dominate creature be used to force a creature that does not itself know a ritual, to perform a ritual that the dominating wizard DOES know?  That was the other suggested means to initiating the process (since Comprehend Languages is SELF.-- The creature must either use it as a potion, or perform the ritual.)

[Kagus]

Terry Crews strikes again.
Or is it the other guy I'm thinking of?

'Tis the fellow from the first advertisements; Other Black Man.

[Animal House 2: The Real Party Animals]

There are also a few oddballs that don't necessarily need Comprehend Languages. Certain more "noble" critters like the Giant Owl, Giant Eagle, and Giant Elk are listed as being able to natively understand Common, Elvish and Sylvan, although they lack the ability to speak these languages.

The less-noble Giant Vulture understands Common, but can't speak it. Curiously, the Elk-Owl-Eagle group all have their own languages as well, which they can presumably speak with each other (in addition to understanding). Giant Vultures don't seem to feel the need to communicate with one another, and would much rather listen to humans than develop their own language.


Presumably "understands" does not include "is able to read", as I don't imagine there's much literature out in the wilds for them to peruse... As such, you may need to find a tutor to read for them (or teach them to read).

Of course, the INT boosting would be a bit strange here, since all those animals have either 7 or 8 INT. The Giant Ape, meanwhile, has 7 INT but cannot understand any language. Just to make things extra clear.



As for mounted combat, there's a new snag... Apparently there's no clear consensus on how your size and reach are handled when you're mounted. This is difficult when you as a Medium creature occupy a 5'x5' space, while the horse you're sitting on occupies a 10'x10' space. The official response from the devs has apparently been "use your own reach", but no explanation of where you are when you're using your own reach. Some have interpreted this to mean that you need to use your own movement in order to walk/climb around on top of your mount to the individual spaces that you fit into, but this kinda requires you to homebrew some rules regarding facing.

Curiously, that's also the only way of getting the Charger feat to actually work while being mounted... Since you and your mount technically take two consecutive turns on the same initiative (your choice who goes first), you can't perform the required action sequence (use your action to Dash, traverse 10 feet in a straight line, immediately use your bonus action afterwards) unless you dismount and run the distance yourself. However, if you as a medium or small creature are located on the back of a Huge mount, such as an elephant, the elephant can walk up to an enemy, and then you can take a running charge along the back of the elephant before colliding with your foe and dealing bonus damage.