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[Gentlefish]

Bards are pretty awesome, but I've never really been able to play them well.

Anyone ever use the spheres of power alternate magic rules? The table I play at allows it in lieu of default magic (and the Path of War 3rd party system as well) in our pathfinder sessions. I find them wonderfully versatile, if not as full of cool unique magics as the base system.

[Mephisto]

So they're perfect to fill in the gaps of a small party.  And yet, their party-wide buffing is basically expected for a large party.

Is this speaking from 5e experience or earlier editions? I know bards in 3.x could basically inspire the party all day long. I'm pretty sure 4 had something similar. But, unless my spell selection is shit, I'm not really seeing it in 5. The most buffing I can manage is inspiring four people using four actions, or going all David Bowie four times a day and allowing up to four people to use their reactions to move without provoking attacks while simultaneously giving them 5 temp HP each.

[Rolan7]

3.5, sorry.  Our previous campaign was DND 5th edition (and in some ways I preferred it, other ways not), but I still assume 3.5 as normal when giving advice.

I have no idea how bards work in 5th edition.  We ran Arcane Fighter, Sorcerer, Paladin.  Which worked great in 5th edition... And arguably would have been okay in 3.5, but only with a sizeable budget for healing potions.

Edit:  Well shit, I just remembered that I ran a 5e 4th level bard for literally one session, after my arcane fighter died.  And I was scrambling to learn her mechanics the entire time, heh.  I think the plan is to revisit these characters eventually, after we cycle through some other campaigns.

[Kadzar]

Yeah, I'd say 5e bards can maybe do full-party buffs with some of their spells, but otherwise they're basically limited to adding a bit of extra healing or countercharming; everything else is pretty single-target. The only exception to this seems to be the College of Glamour bard from Xanathar's Guide to Everything.

I think, ignoring spells and just going by class features, the best full-party buffer in 5e is probably the paladin, with their passive aura abilities. The only downside is that you have to stay pretty close to the paladin to take advantage of them (for most levels they'll be limited to 10 feet, and even when you get to level 18 the auras only extend up to 30 feet), but they can block some pretty nasty effects, and a paladin with a good charisma modifier can give quite a significant saving throw bonus without having to expend any resources.

[IcyTea31]

Faerie Fire. There's your full-party buff spell, and it's 1st level. Giving someone a Bardic inspiration die is a bonus action, so you can still cast spells while giving it. Shatter is your damaging spell, Dispel Magic is good to have in your pocket and Polymorph makes an amazing buff when cast on your teammates. A wizard can cast these spells as well, but their bonus actions can easily go to waste.

And if you want to save your slots, Vicious Mockery is hilarious.

Furthermore, with Magical Secrets you can screw over paladins and get spells like Find Greater Steed or Circle of Power way before them.

[Jimmy]

Nearly time for the release of Pathfinder 2.0 and it's looking... different. Certainly gonna give it a shot, but I dunno if it's gonna click for me. Anyone else doing the Playtest?

[Mephisto]

Just about every time I get in my car, I hear Africa by Toto. This guy is on to something. We're all just normies in someone's Unknown Armies campaign.

[Mesa]

Nearly time for the release of Pathfinder 2.0 and it's looking... different. Certainly gonna give it a shot, but I dunno if it's gonna click for me. Anyone else doing the Playtest?

Yep, very eager to try it out. PF1 I find very intimidating and full of trap choices and other things that kind of dispel the magic of it having so much choice and variety and complexity, so I'm very hopeful for PF2.
(I'm very surprised that people reacted to today's blog on multiclassing as well as they did, since I remember it being a very big point of contention when a person on Reddit who got their playtest books early leaked some info on that - there's still people upset over the changes of course, but not as many as I expected.)

[Kadzar]

I assume this is the blog post you're talking about.

And, yeah, it looks interesting. I guess it might not work for character concepts where you intent to not be primarily one class or the other, though multiclassing like that never really worked very well past 2nd edition (I think probably the closest concept to 1st and 2nd edition multiclassing was gestalt characters), so it's probably not missing much that would probably work better done a different way.

[scriver]

I'm not known for my genius insight into mechanics and how they fit together, and this goes doubly for something like pathfinder 2 that I have not followed or read about in any way (thus my only frame of reference is pathfinder 1), but having multiclassing be done by way of feats... Well, doesn't it seem like a raw deal for classes that often rely on feats for their prowess, like fighters or rogues? I suspect that a wizard who mulficlass into cleric would lose out on less than a fighter who mulficlass the same.

Also, writing pathfinder 1 or 2 is tedious. How is pathfinder usually shortened? Pthfr? Pfr?

[GiglameshDespair]

PF.

[scriver]

Pfft.

[Kagus]

Pathos.

[Egan_BW]

What?

[GiglameshDespair]

Whathos?