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[Shakerag]

Loud Whispers:

Unvote Urist McCoder, vote Shakerag.
It is interesting to me that you have declared Urist McCoder to be a townie, based off of perceivable noobiness. What noobiness have you perceived? You gave no reason.

That is not the easiest thing to quantify.  A lot of it is experience from being an IC before and seeing lots of new players.  He has a ... sloppy style of playing.  It's not very focused/directed nor refined.  It doesn't seem to tighten up with time like I would expect someone who is being coached by a scum IC.  He seems to be rather open and chatty, and newbie scum players don't tend to act like that.

Already you've written off someone for no declared reason. H4zarD1 you write off because they voted for themselves. Odd, as that rules out nothing - whether it is a result of H4zarD1 quitting due to RL obligations rather unceremoniously or quitting due to H4zarD1's interactions with you, even I can tell there is nothing orthodox about a Townie or Scum doing that. So that's another person ruled out for dubious reasons.

Again, experience.  Also I mentioned other points as to why I thought he was town which you conveniently ignored.

Then you focus in on the two most ardent scrub scumhunters and declare the fervent scumhunting as evidence of a scum team. Playing fairly well = Scumtell? Ha! Is someone getting scared of being caught? Sounds like it.

The idea is that scum should be ardently "scumhunting" so as to appear town.  Yes, you and Tawarochir have very well constructed posts.  However, technically you have both failed to lynch any scum yet.  If the idea of scumhunting is to lynch scum ... then how good of a job of scumhunting have you really been doing, hmm? 
And it's cute that you'd think actually be scared of being caught -if- I was scum.

And yeah you're right NQT correctly identified FOU as town through statistics and experience whilst I incorrectly assuaged FOU's newby panicking as deliberate lies through inexperience, but more to the point - McCoder, Taro and I were all convinced FOU was scummy because he was doing his best to appear scummy, and no one else appeared as scummy because of this and 4maskwolf and H4zarD1 lurking; as you said, it is better to scumhunt than lynch the lurkers, as you can always deal with the lurkers later. All the same, you only mention Taro and I. You also fail to mention NQT incorrectly identifying HLG as scum, whilst I was the one correctly guessing HLG was much more likely just being a newby Town. I.e. you're cutting out everything that suggests I'm town and substituting it with nothing but your opinion, which you're certain is sufficient to lynch me on.

Fair enough.  So how were you able to identify HLG as newbie town but not FoU?  You might have mentioned it before, but let's hear it fresh.

Good scumhunting = You are scum

I've gone over this already.  And that's oversimplifying the point.  In the context of a beginner's game, a "newbie" performing strongly is cause for an eyebrow raise.  Yes, it's a bit meta.  I don't like to rely on meta arguments, but I use the tools that I have.

[You'll see the term "meta" argument thrown around a bit if you decide to stay in this subforum.  Basically that means using information that isn't necessarily given in that game to give reason for someone being scum.  Usually this takes the form of "PlayerA is always aggressive as town in previous games.  PlayerA is often lurky when scum in previous games.  PlayerA is lurky in this game, so therefore PlayerA is likely scum."  Some players are okay with using these kinds of arguments.  I tend to feel that they're a little cheat-y.]

I haven't interacted with Taro in the sense that I haven't asked Taro many questions, because I'm pretty sure Taro is town.

Would you like to elaborate as to why?

[quote[And on that other point, the way I see it, the only thing better than having scum IC coaching is to be an IC scum. One who is playing fairly well; you? I'll go with yes. If you were scum you could assert authority through your greater experience and sit back giving advice and bants in great walls of text without actually really saying much about yourself, which is what you have done. And frankly I still don't know myLOS from LYLOS, any coaching is sorely missing from my game.[/quote]
It's funny, because I used the exact same argument (against Jim) in my first beginner's game.  I was wrong then too. 
If I was scum, I could do that, yes.  That would also completely defeat the purpose of me trying to teach you anything. 
And if you had read my post in which I voted you, I explained the difference between MYLO and LYLO.  Well, mostly.

[To elaborate, MYLO is mislynch -and- lose.  You have 4 town and 2 scum.  A town is mislynched.  Now you have 3 town and two scum.  Another town is night killed.  Now you have 2 town and 2 scum, which is a scum victory.  MYLO can possibly be survived if the night kill is prevented.  The ideal gameplay for MYLO is to no lynch, so that scum kills a town in the night, and now you have one fewer player to narrow down who is scum from.

LYLO is lynch -or- lose.  You have 3 town and 2 scum.  If a town is lynched, the game is over.  If no one is lynched, a town is killed in the night and the game is over.  It's rare for LYLO to extend for more than one day, but not completely unheard of.]

I dropped the wall of text because I was done; I had my convictions, I didn't have much spare time - but in truth, even if I did whatever else I could have done wouldn't have surmounted to much, as I had no other hunches beyond FOU.

Fair enough if you were out of time.  Otherwise it's always good to keep tabs on multiple people as you can.  This way you're not left flat-footed when your main target is lynched/killed/cleared/etc.

[No reasons given beyond muh feels]

I'm after your scummy ass today.  If it means that much to you, I can give you my notes on Tawa.

Plus I do like how any evidence which would verify that I am clearly town is to you, further proof I am scum, so much so that were I to reveal I were cop...

Not necessarily.  But I really do think you're scum.  However, I have had instances where someone whom I am convinced is scum manages to persuade me otherwise.  It's good to be firm in your convictions, but one should always be able to re-evaluate everything in light of new information.


Ahh, my dog, so much text.  I'll have to finish the rest of this replay later because my lunch break is over  >_>


Unvote
Loud Whispers
Resetting dat timer, yo.


[Teneb, I am not a doublevoter.]

[Teneb]

[Teneb, I am not a doublevoter.]

Sorry. Stuff has been... hectic over here.

[Shakerag]

[Teneb, I am not a doublevoter.]

Sorry. Stuff has been... hectic over here.

Don't worry about it.  Shit happens.

[Urist McCoder]

I realy feel like you haven't yet answered my question. That last post didn't really say almost anything.

[Teneb]

H4zardZ1 has been replaced by DoctorMcTaalik

[DoctorMcTaalik]

First thing's first:

Unvote DoctorMcTaalik.

Second thing coming at a later point; have to do some reading first.

[Tawa]

Shakerag, are you enjoying your discussion with your scumbuddy Loud Whispers? It's cute how you're accusing each other like this, really.

[Shakerag]

DoctorMcTaalik:

Second thing coming at a later point; have to do some reading first.

You've had a good amount of time for some reading.  Ready to do some posting?


Tawarochir:

Shakerag, are you enjoying your discussion with your scumbuddy Loud Whispers? It's cute how you're accusing each other like this, really.

Not surprised by that vote.  Two questions (to start, at least):
-So, why do you think LW and I are scumbuddies? 
-Why do you think two scum, who have avoided lynching until now, would suddenly try bussing each other?

unvote
Loud Whispers
[Can't let the game end now without having taught DMT anything.]

[Tawa]

So, why do you think LW and I are scumbuddies? 

Ever since you showed up and replaced 4mask, you've focused most of your energy on going after LW. He's done basically the same thing. That wouldn't be too bad on its own, but you've only put real effort on pursuing a player who's been playing well. The argument behind that is WIFOM to the extreme... so you'd think that somebody so experienced at the game would avoid it.

Why do you think two scum, who have avoided lynching until now, would suddenly try bussing each other?

4mask wasn't active at all before, so LW didn't have him around long enough or have enough info to make it look like anything other than bussing. Now that you've become active and LW has established his reputation as a fervent scumhunter, disguising it has become possible.

[DoctorMcTaalik]

Just so you don't think I'm lurking: I am literally writing up my player assessments now. Sorry it's taken me so long.

[DoctorMcTaalik]

My apologies for the lack of posting. The following are my current readings on players, in ascending order of probable scumminess (and spoilered for your convenience).
Shakerag

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Verdict: So far, has been pretty active in the scumhunt. I'm certainly not ruling him out as scum, but he strikes me as town so far.

Tawarochir

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here's why loud whispers posted the one text wall, other then that his activity has been on the lower side of normal. you however have maintained a fairly even level of posting. you also have not shown any level of anxiety when people attack you.

Lol wut? Loud Whispers has been significantly more active than I have. Why are you lying about basic, observable facts like this?

How do you objectively judge activity? By post count? Because you have him beat 13-6 on that one. And most of his posts were either irrelevant, or focused on (poorly) defending himself from Shakerag. I guess he beat you to posting a reply after Fallacy got lynched, but that post didn't contain anything pertinent to the scumhunt.

I'm going to discount that little error as a scumtell, though part of me wants to believe that you and he are scumbuddies. You've actually been pretty active in dogging Urist McCoder, though your efforts haven't been all that fruitful due to Urist's refusal to engage in legitimate debate.

Shakerag, are you enjoying your discussion with your scumbuddy Loud Whispers? It's cute how you're accusing each other like this, really.

However, you have failed to substantiate this accusation. I might have to take back that bit about you not being scum.

Verdict: Pretty active scumhunter, but could very well be scum. I might have to go back through his posts again.

Urist McCoder

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And while I think lurking is worse , I don't necessarily think it is a scum tell

I just think that lurking has a good chance of being caused by stuff like, schedule, bad internet, having other obligations. so I am not quick to say he is lurking lynch him.

It's funny you should say that, considering how scant your presence has been of late. Not a lot of content in your mini-posts, I must say.

Tawochir, I think you are the least scummy, after graknorke you have been the most dedicated scum hunter. You have never jumped on a vote for no reason. All of your arguments have been your own and they have been well thought out.

Considering you posted this right after Tawarochir called you out for rationalizing your own lurking, it comes across as a bit suspicious. Sucking up, are we?

Urist McCoder, who are the two you believe are most likely to be Scum?

I think hazard and shakerag are the most likely scum. I think hazard is scum because he seems to be lurking. but I think shakerag is more likely to be scum because 4maskwolf post almost nothing. and the things that shakerag has posted has almost all been in his ic voice. It seems to me that shakerags post have had very little scum hunting, but It still looks like he is contributing a ton because he is posting in his ic voice.

Your claim that Shakerag was mostly posting as an IC, and therefore was lurking, is the only real evidence you've given to justify your vote. I've counted not one, but two walls of un-italicized text posted by Shakerag since this post, and I personally found his defense pretty solid. Do you stand by your vote?

Verdict: Urist has failed to effectively scumhunt, and he's put forward unsubstantiated claims. I'm going to have to investigate him further.

Loud Whispers

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

LW's actions over the last few turns have, to be frank, struck me as highly suspicious. Between the excessive roleplaying and attempts to convince you that he's really just an innocent newbie, he's looking more and more like a scumbag trying to mask his own lurking.

Let's look specifically at his since Fallacy was lynched. He started off the turn with several "filler" posts.

This is not good, we've got this turn to lynch mafia or Luchabowl IV could be ruined for good.

What ho, I have been slain!
(Good luck with the game.)
(bah post.)

Alas! Such misfortune! You were innocent all along!

Loud Whispers, how did you feel about NotQuiteThere?

notquitethere was one of the people I was leaning towards Townie, the strongest townie to be true since Grak went.

Now, to be fair, he did supply us with a half-decent explanation...

Loud Whispers, why did you single out Fallacy yesterday?

This post

Loud Whispers:

This is not good, we've got this turn to lynch mafia or Luchabowl IV could be ruined for good.

Super.  What are you going to do about it?  You haven't exactly started this day with the actions of one desperate to lynch scum.

Between losing nqt, leading the lynch on FOU and the lurkers I'm left needing time to think, a little shaken up by FOU just being a noob.

To be even fairer, it took him another two days before he posted anything of substance.

Top lel, triggered by Luchadores

Not helpful. Annoying, even.

I do try to entertain.  Now play the game, smartass.

You don't sound like you're having fun. Would you like to calm yourself first?

Oh God, just stop.

I am having fun, and this -is- me being calm. 
Would you like to try your hand at scumhunting now?  I'd just like to remind you that this is MYLO, and activity is paramount.

Hey, what is MYLO? Also it seems your sardonic wit has thrown a spanner in the tracks - when you got scrubs who don't know what they're doing mixed with scum who are content with letting you do all the talking all activity is going to grind to a halt. Hahaha, big mean Shakerag - you're making nubs and scum bugger off, nubs haven't got any investment in a game they've just picked up, and if they can't handle the banter they're just going to go outside and scum are just going to let you talk yourself to yourself.
And just to clarify, you picked off from where 4maskwolf left off right?
Urist McCoder, who are the two you believe are most likely to be Scum?

The decent word count here doesn't make up for the fact that he spent four sentences spinning a weird, largely irrelevant argument about Shakerag's playstyle(which comes across as reactionary given Shake's recent criticism of LW), and then decided to slap an unwarranted lynch vote on Urist McCoder so he could claim he was scumhunting.

And when he finally did post something substantial, he still failed to scumhunt. Rather, he embarked on a lengthy rant in response to Shakerag's post, basically trying to convince us that no, he really wasn't as scummy as he seemed. My recommendation to LW: if you don't want to look scummy, actually hunt scum.

Verdict: Loud Whispers has demonstrated a reluctance to scumhunt productively, which is either a symptom of newbhood (as I'm sure he'd rather we believe), or, more likely, indicative of his being scum. His posts over the last turn (and, I would argue, the last two turns) have largely consisted of fluff and half-baked self-defense, which strikes me as highly suspicious. I'm not going to drop a vote on him just yet, as the evidence isn't entirely damning; however, he's going to have to work pretty hard to convince me of his innocence.

[Shakerag]

stuff

[So far so good for replacing in late game.  Now you need to take that information you've accumulated and use it to ask questions and press a case on whomever you think is scum.

Also, I'm still a little IRL busy, so I'll let DMT continue to get his feet wet before hopping back in.

Everyone who isn't DMT should use this opportunity to analyze his behavior (by which I mean interact with him, not just passively watch), as H4zardZ1 did practically nothing D2/D3.]

[Tawa]

How do you objectively judge activity? By post count? Because you have him beat 13-6 on that one. And most of his posts were either irrelevant, or focused on (poorly) defending himself from Shakerag. I guess he beat you to posting a reply after Fallacy got lynched, but that post didn't contain anything pertinent to the scumhunt.

Well, what he was doing certainly seemed like scumhunting to me. He didn't manage to lynch any scum, but he was looking, or doing a very good job at pretending he was doing so.

He also had the giant text wall. But most of this is hazy hindsight, so take my word here with a pinch of salt.
Urist McCoder! Answer my freaking question!

[Urist McCoder]

Pfp
I did answer it. Loud whispers has posted 2 woft which is not as useful as constant pressure on scum, which you two hie have provided.

[Teneb]

The game will end in 1:30 hours if no one votes.

Votecount

Shakerag[3]: Urist McCoder, Loud Whispers, Tawarochir
Loud Whispers[1]: Shakerag

Not Voting: DoctorMcTaalik